Clones

Tony A · #1 07-13-2003, 01:25 AM

I will probably be thaught of as a crank...but I have just baught a set of micro tanks...they are not Konami...the detail level is'nt as great as the Konami...(any modelers out there?)...they are'nt propotional...they are'nt rechargable, they take small watch batteries...they do have infrared...they are tracked...all road wheels turn..they also have a controlable turret...they are about the same size as the Konami tanks (60 X 40 X 34 mm)...they have 3 different tanks..up to 3 fighting...3 tanks in a set are going for £49.99 at firebox.com...I am wondering about doing something about the control system...have'nt had one apart yet...from what I have seen of these and other tanks of their ilk, there seems to be a bit of incest going on in some of the eastern companies producing them...A common part's bin?...any ideas on this subject...the pictures on the site (firebox) dosn't do them justice...anyone know anything about propotional system's.......enough

savall21 · #2 07-13-2003, 07:30 PM

I was checking these out as well. I understand that they do not have proportional controls. How fast are they compared to the Digi-Q tanks? How well do they turn? How has the battery life been?

Thanx
Chris

Tony A · #3 07-13-2003, 08:09 PM

Can't say how fast they are compared to the Konami tanks, but they are fast enough...turning is odd...you have to stop first...but a rotating turret makes a big difference anyway...battery life seems to be ok as well, haven't flattened them yet...small rechargable batteries are quite common these days, so if they become a problem I shall probably get rechargables and bodge up a charger...same for controller...you can see the tanks working on a couple of short mpeg's at firebox.com...if these had been propotional, I think Konami would have some serious competition...

savall21 · #4 07-14-2003, 08:17 AM

When you say stop. Do you mean like a complete stop then hit the turn button? I have a Hen Long tank (the one that shoots pellets) and you cant realy turn and go straight. But if you sequence the buttons you don't really stop. Is this tank like that?

Tony A · #5 07-14-2003, 02:22 PM

Yes, you have to stop first...you can press the turn first but the tank stops,the turret turns in the direction you pressed, then the tank turns...

savall21 · #6 07-14-2003, 02:26 PM

so the turret control is not independent?

savall21 · #7 07-14-2003, 02:27 PM

actually come to think of it. are there online instructions for the tanks anywhere? that would answer all my questions. I want them I just want to make sure they will be fun.

Tony A · #8 07-14-2003, 03:00 PM

Yes the turrets are independantly controllable...It's just that when you press the turn button, the turret turns in the direction you pressed before the tank turns...you can turn the turret independently, but only when stopped...Firebox.com have the most complete test/discription I've seen so far...mpeg's and photos as well....if you want a better look at the pictures, drag them onto your desktop and then use some sort of picture viewer to make them as big as possible...

tiny-miny-moe · #9 08-30-2003, 05:50 PM

I got the set of three of these, and I agree with the above comments. If anyone is interested in the reason for the odd turning, I took one apart and think I see why.

There is one large motor inside. It is geared down twice for low speed and high torque. Two bevel gears, at right angles, are driven: one clockwise, the other counterclockwise. The left track is always driven by the one. The right track can be driven by either, depending on the position of a movable piece (a clutch? I do not know the terminology). What moves this piece, to engage either the clockwise or ccw turning bevel gear, is a lever WHICH IS SET IN POSITION BY THE TURRET. So, if the turret is pointed straight, the right track engages the shaft of the left bevel gear, and both right and left tracks rotate in the same direction. (By simple electronic swithing of the motor polarity, I assume that can be forward or back.) If the turret is rotated very far to either the left or the right (doesn't matter), then the right track engages the right bevel gear, and the right track goes opposite of the left track for spinning in place. (Again, motor direction can be electronically switched at the motor for the tank to spin-in-place to the right or to the left.)

So, the result is, if the turret is pointing straight ahead, the tank can move straight forward or back. To turn either right or left, first, the turret must move very far right OR left to engage the right track in the opposite rotating gear. Then, the tank can rotate either left or right. That's about it.

It's an admirable design, but not the one I would have chosen, if I were designing my own tank. My thoughts? As follows (if curious).

Given that they wish to make an inexpensive tank (no proportional control, no analog stick) with function similar to a Digi Q tank, this is more of how I would have done it. I would have used two smaller motors, one for the left track and one for the right track. Four button control. But, not forward, backward, left and right. Instead, Fwd and Backward for the left track, and Fwd and Backwrd for the right track. In my design, holding down both Fwd buttons would cause both tracks to go fwd; holding down both Backward buttons would cause both tracks to go backward. (Also, two separate buttons to rotate the turret left/right.) But, look at the control possible: By holding one Fwd button down, and pressing the other on/off, you can make the tank turn in arcs of varying tightness. Hold one fwd button down and the Backward button of the other track, and the tank spins in place. Many combinations, much control.

There is much to admire about these micro battling tanks. The tracks really work. These tanks can really climb. Sometimes, rather than battle them, I just watch them climb on things. They look just like tanks when they move; I love to watch them move! I think many people will not be pleased with the limitations of having to rotate the turret in order to turn. But, for a lot less money than a Digi Q tank, it certainly is a quality product. I bought 50 LR44 watch batteries online at http://as-seen.bizhosting.com/maxell...e_battery.html
for $7.99 + $5.00 shipping, not bad. I have searched and did not find any rechargeable LR44's available. Overall, I really like these tanks. If free/independent control of turning and the turret is a very important issue (and that would be understandable!) you might want to consider spending more on Digi Q tanks. Thanks! p.s. about the above discussion about modifying the control of these tanks, I don't see how. The tank turret is inherently limited in what it can do, because of its dual purpose (if not primary purpose!) controling the track drive for turning.

Tony A · #10 08-30-2003, 10:00 PM

I Have just bought some Combat hero tanks.About the same size as the Konami ones(if no exactly the same)They have 2 motors but are radio control. About 1/4" narower and 1/4" shorter.My original idea was to take all the guts out of the Combat hero tanks and shoe horn them into the other.The Combat hero are rear wheel drive with 2 sets of reduction gears in one box and the other is front wheel drive(with Diferencial gear) The gearbox in the Combat hero is slightly big,but can probably be sawn in half. Have to put them in the front, the turret motor and gears are in the back. Along with all the mountings.The problem as I see it would be to convert the turret turning bit to left/right turning via two motors(they probably just reverse polarity, or something like that to get the tracks turning in opposite directions). The rest of the scheme that I have is even more hare brained but have run ouy of space here.

tiny-miny-moe · #11 09-01-2003, 04:23 PM

I'll be the Combat Hero tanks are fun to drive, are they?

Let's see... if you put the guts of the Combat Hero Tank (let's say CHT) inside the Battling Micro Tank (let's say BMT), you have a control issue. The one big motor in the BMT is getting a drive signal. The two smaller motors from the CHT will each need a motor drive signal, and they will be different depending on whether the tank is going straight or turning.
You have to add some electronics to provide these signals. With all the gears removed from the BMT you might have room inside for a small circuit board. But, I don't think you have enough information. The BMT drive signal is not enough information to parse out four desired combinations: tanks fwd, tank bkwrd, tank spin cw, tank spin ccw. Actually, four more combinations would be highly desirable: tanks fwd left turn, tank fwd right turn, tank rvs left turn, and tank rvs right turn. See? Unless you could find points on the circuit bds indicating what buttons were pressed on the user's IR controller. Anyway, without more information about what the user is trying to get the tank to do, even if you put these new guts inside the tank, I don't see how you could complete the mod. Was this helpful?

Tony A · #12 09-02-2003, 01:20 PM

I've been down this road, I had the same thought's. 4 signals needed. How about 4 redundant signals left over from the CHT radio? Same for c/board, very small in the CHT. Now you have a hybrid that will drive out of line of sight, down tunnel's maybe, longer range.The Gearbox in the CHT is, by the looks of it, 2 motors, 2 set's of reduction gear's in 1 box. If cut in half, you could have each motor/gearbox in a very small pack, very convienent. You would then have the signal from the BMT left over. You would also have to bodge up a controller out of the two.The controller from the CHT is big enough to hold both sets of bottons/board's, just. As I said,the rest of the scheme if pretty mad. Have both tanks in bit's at the moment, just thinking and measuring. I have seen a guy on another site scratch building tanks smaller than the DQ's, too small to fit the board's inside. His answer, put board on bottom of tank and paint. Looks just like the bottom of your car. Any of this make sense?

Tony A · #13 09-02-2003, 01:46 PM

PS, the Combat hero tank's drive and control great, but the design is a bit dodgy. The charger, which looks just like the DQ's, has a charge light that goes out when charging is done. Trouble is, power is still fed to tank. Real sensible. Probably damaged battery's within a day or two. Discovered this after putting a tester on on charge terminal's. Don't know if this is the reason why the batteries have no life. They don't run for long. Maybe cheap battery's. Might be worth checking the DQ's charge system if you have one. Also the tank's drag steer. Not too much of a problem, but probably not very energy efficient. Ok otherwise.

Racemonster505 · #14 09-04-2003, 04:30 AM

i was walking wally mart and i come across Motor works Mini Military. All i saw was a Jeep with fake guns then i did some digging and i come across a 49 Mhz tank and apc the same freq and they both got moving tank treds so i bout the apc one for $14.99 get it home and this tank rocks!

it same size as a bit. got moving treds it steers like a real tank to go left the left tread stops and it turns. same the otherway. the turret is free moving got a descent camo on it. but it climbs pretty good tips over end over end if its to steep. its easy to look inside 2 screws and you can see the batt i droped it and had to reseat the batt

im happy with my tank if i find a way im going to buy the 27 Mhz and replace the board to make a 27Mhz tank so the treded ones dont share the same freq.

if you got a battle field setup these would make a good additon to the convoy.

Tony A · #15 09-04-2003, 09:41 AM

If you want cheap clone's, look on ebay. They are sold under name's like mini master tank, or mini battle tank. They mostly turn out to be Combat hero tank's. Some have different hand controller's. The Combat hero's seem to be the only one's that have 4 different frequency's. They only seem to do 1 body though, Panzer. Other company's do make other model tanks but they only seem to do a couple of frequency's to go with them, shame but that's life.
I got 4 tank's on 4 frequency's fof 10$ + post. (for 4, not each)
$2.25 for each tank before post. The post cost $35 to UK, but only about $10 to US.
I don't think you could get them any cheaper. What I did was wait until the bidding had finished and the went to the sellers site, and bid for the same thing even though it wasn't on ebays list...there was no one else bidding (not on ebay listing) so I just bid $1 up on the base price...don't know if it would work for everyone. They went for $14 in the bid that I looked at.
Because of the poor battery life, I complained and got a refund of $5.00.
$1.25 each after refund. Shame about the cost of post.
Still at least 30% cheaper rhan retail in UK
As I only got the tank's for modding, it did'nt matter too much about the battery's.