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  #16  
Old 01-06-2003, 09:23 PM
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bdebde bdebde is offline
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HEY! I like this dual and triple cell mod. The run time would be pretty decent if peak charging. Although the motor you use and how you drive will determine run times (notice Tiny used 1.0 motor for his test). A faster motor will eat the juice faster. I have a dual 150 mah Zip Zap with clone pcb, NOS motor and I rarely charge it to full capacity or run it dead just because I don't have enough time to run it forever. I use a high end peak charger from my 1/10th scale RC cars to charge (I been watching Peak Char-g'd thread). I also have a couple of booster cars, which seem to eat the juice a little faster too. Even the stock 50 mah battery provides excellent runtime of 20 to 30 minutes depending on motor used. I guess I will try your battery mod in a booster to see how it works with peak charging. I also like the no solder/ no destroy for this mod. I was going to take a pcb from a booster and put it in a Zip Zap because it is easier to fit two 1/3aaa batteries in the chassis, but now I may hold off on destroying a booster car. Although I do like the longer wheelbase on the Zip Zaps, which handle real well at the high speed of dual cells (hmm, may try this mod on a Zip Zap too). Higher charge currents will kill a battery quicker. I been running 300 to 500 ma charge rate, just depends how long you want to wait for the battery to charge.
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  #17  
Old 01-07-2003, 02:32 AM
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SPEED SPEED is offline
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Went to radioshack.com and found these!

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...Fid=960%2D0485

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...Fid=960%2D0481

DOn't know if they would fit, but they sure do look like they would.

[EDIT] these aren't Nmih's and cost more
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SPEED-The state of being in rapid motion

Last edited by SPEED; 01-07-2003 at 02:37 AM.
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  #18  
Old 01-07-2003, 08:49 PM
actofgod actofgod is offline
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That'd be nice if it worked. Usually though, NiCd's have a lower capacity for the same given size as a NIMH. I don't think these could be 150% the capacity and be the same size, but maybe someone can run by a RS and double check. I'll do it next time I'm there. Thanks for the links!
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  #19  
Old 01-07-2003, 10:51 PM
JaredR420 JaredR420 is offline
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2 Battery packs on the way. I hope to make a 5-6 cell zip too.
Thanks for the idea.
JAredR420
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  #20  
Old 01-08-2003, 02:43 PM
tarnjit tarnjit is offline
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act of god m8 cool mod! i just had a few quesions.

1) could this be charged from your controller? 3 cell or 2 cell?
2) what about a custom made 4aa battery charger?
3) how long would i need to charge?
4) could u please send me one of your 2cells and 3cell batteries please? id pay u of coarse.

thankyou very much
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  #21  
Old 01-08-2003, 04:13 PM
actofgod actofgod is offline
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Originally posted by tarnjit
act of god m8 cool mod! i just had a few quesions.

1) could this be charged from your controller? 3 cell or 2 cell?

1) Just like any other dual cell setup, you'll need more voltage than the stock controller supplies. Use any methods that work on a normal dual cell setup, like wiring the controller's batteries straight to the charging posts or building a separate charger using multiple batteries or an AC-to-DC adapter. I'm using the adapter b/c I can then charge at a lower current -- that's safer on those tiny batteries.


2) what about a custom made 4aa battery charger?

2) Yes, that's enough voltage to charge either the dual-cell or tri-cell just fine, but I'd still prefer an adapter setup. The voltage and current stay constant and somewhat predictable with an adapter, unlike a battery-based charger.

3) how long would i need to charge?

3) No clue; I've never used a battery setup to charge dual or tri- cell bits. You'd need to know the current that those batteries put out so you could calculate it. Another reason to go with the adapter. If you're still interested in a battery-based charger, search the forum for others who have made one of these.

4) could u please send me one of your 2cells and 3cell batteries please? id pay u of coarse.

4) If you mean the battery packs, it'd be just as cheap to order from allelectronics.com as from me. $1.50 plus $6 flat rate shipping (get some other things while you're there). It is super-easy to go from a shrink-wrapped pack to usable batteries with just a pair of wire cutters.
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2003, 02:12 AM
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SPEED SPEED is offline
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Well i got done reading a charger adapter set that uses the TX itself instead of a seperate Project box. Basically what he did was he did the adpater mod, but did it to his remote. He got and adpater plug and put it on his TX. When the wall adapter is plugged into the remote the power from the batteries of the TX are cut off then the power from the wall adapter powers the Controller. I was wondering if this set up is able to charge these kinds of batteries??? I'm pretty sure it's possible but i want to make sure.


the credit goes to kameraguy from Micro Rc Center for the great idea.
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Last edited by SPEED; 01-10-2003 at 02:14 AM.
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2003, 06:35 PM
BCGMan BCGMan is offline
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Hi guys, I just mod my LXX nissan skyline castro with the layman tri cell mod and its awesome. Although it still can't wheelies with a 3.0 motor . I wanted to know how long should I charge for all 3 cell to get their full capacity with a standard lone charger I made. I can change voltage from the charger from 1.5v - 12v at 300ma. Any help would be greatly appreciate. Thanks
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2003, 12:36 AM
rlee429 rlee429 is offline
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well i tried doing the layman's mod but i can't seem to get the batteries to charge? anyone got any clues how to fix this?
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2003, 01:39 AM
BCGMan BCGMan is offline
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me neither, well i kinda get it to charge. I charge for like 5 min at 3v (300ma), it would only last about 5 min run time with a 3.0 motor. SOme one help us please. thanks
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2003, 08:26 AM
actofgod actofgod is offline
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Arrow Charging FAQ

For those wondering about the charging voltage and charge time, see Namuna's post on the first page. I'll recap here:

1) Try to charge at the same voltage as the battery pack, but since they don't sell AC-to-DC adapters (that I've seen) at those voltages, go to the next step up. Ex: 2.4v dual cell = 3.0v charger; 3.6v tri cell = 4.5v charger. If you want to charge both types, get an adjustable charger.

2) Each adapter has a different current that it delivers, in mA. To figure out how long (in hours) you need to charge with a given current, divide the capacity of the batteries (40mAh) by the charge rate in mA. (ChilledOut says that rechargeable AA's put out about 1000mA if you're using them for a custom AA charger instead of using an AC-to-DC adapter.) Multiply by 1.2 to account for inefficiencies in the charging process, then multiply by 60 to convert to minutes. Finally, multiply whatever follows the decimal point by 60 to get the seconds.

Ex: using 300mAh charger, 40mAh / 300 = 0.13333
0.13333 * 1.2 = 0.16
0.16 * 60 = 9.6 minutes
0.6 (the part after the decimal in 9.6) * 60 = 36
final answer: 9 minutes, 36 seconds

Ex: using a 600mAh charger, 40mAh / 600 = 0.06667
0.06667 * 1.2 = 0.08
0.08 * 60 = 4.8 minutes
0.8 (the part after the decimal in 4.8) * 60 = 48
final answer: 4 minutes, 48 seconds

3) Once you have figured out how long you need to charge to reach *peak* capacity, keep in mind that that is the theoretically absolute MAX time you could charge. I recommend playing it safe and cutting it off a little before. It will decrease the lifespan of your batteries if you overcharge them. Each time they are overcharged, they lose some of their max capacity. Don't overcharge! Go back and do the calculations above again, and this time don't multiply by 1.2 in the second step. That's a guideline "safe" charge time limit that I use, but you'll have to decide for yourself how close to the limit you want to get.

Why does charging take so long? I did a little research on NIMH battery charging; normal, "overnight" charging is charged at "C/10", or the capacity of the battery in mAh ("C") divided by 10. Rapid, 1-hr charging is done at a charge rate of "C". For a 1500mAh AA battery, you'd charge at 150mAh for overnight charge and 1500mAh for rapid charge. They recommend charging at the high rate only until the battery is about 80% full and then "topping off" at a lower charge rate.

These tiny button batteries are 40mAh, so they'd be slow-charged at 4mA (!) and rapid charged (1-hr) at 40mA. We're super-rapid charging here, well beyond the recommendations. A 500mA charger charges at 12.5 times the recommended maximum charge rate.

Maybe they will handle this high rate, but the higher the rate you use, the harder it is on them. If you're willing to wait longer at a lower charge rate, you might be better off in terms of battery life. On the other hand, these batteries are pretty cheap if you buy several packs at a time when you order. It's up to you to decide what charge rate you will use. I'm going to use 300mA for now.

Your runtimes will vary depending on which motor you use. Tinyrc used a 1.0 motor to get the 45 minute results with a stock battery, and I'm not sure if that was driving around with steering or just running the motor while sitting in its back.

Troubleshooting:

1) Make sure the batteries are oriented correctly. The positive end is clearly marked with a + sign. That narrow end should face where the button tip of the old battery went, towards the side with the red wire. All batteries should face the same direction.

2) Make sure the batteries aren't contacting something on the PCB. If you have snipped the batteries apart and have a little space where the metal is exposed through the shrink wrap, turn it so that the metal faces sideways, away from the PCB. You can also try using clear tape on the bottom side of the PCB as an insulator. This may be your problem if it works with the PCB lifted up but does not work, or works sporadically, with everything put back together.

3) Charge at a voltage higher than or equal to the combined battery pack. If using AA's (not recommended), you'll probably need one more battery than the number of cells in the car, since they lose some voltage over time. I've had the most luck charging at 3.0v for dual cell and 4.5v for tri cell.

4) Test the car while on the charger to make sure it is getting a good connection. If it is not working while on the charger, it may or may not be charging the batteries, or your car may have a loose wire. Check the battery contact points to make sure they are all touching. Revert to an uncharged stock battery and test.

5) That's about all I can think of at the moment. If you're still having trouble, post details about what you're doing and what you've tried and maybe someone can help.
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2003, 11:30 AM
JaredR420 JaredR420 is offline
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I have done all said and I too am having a problem charging. I can't even get a 10 sec run time. I have a 3v, 500ma ac->dc adapter. Measured output is 3.8v. Will not charge the tri cell mod I have done. Can anyone help?
JaredR420
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  #28  
Old 01-11-2003, 12:43 PM
actofgod actofgod is offline
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Try a dual cell first.. if it charges that fine but won't charge the tri cell then you need more voltage. I use 3v for dual cell and 4.5v for tri cell. How long are you charging? What motor are you using?
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  #29  
Old 01-11-2003, 02:37 PM
JaredR420 JaredR420 is offline
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I am using a bitmod 3.5. The car is slower than it ever was and lasts about 10 sec. I will try more voltage.
JaredR420
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2003, 06:37 PM
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MadMicroDoc MadMicroDoc is offline
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Looks goooood to me haha

ive never been too successful with any of the other dual batter mods , looks liek theres some hope now ! i hope?
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