|
Kyosho IC Tag Lap Counter, Home Edition
Does anyone happen to have details on this?
post a link to available information? Kyosho is selling individual transponders for the Mini-Z already in JPN. Are these compatible with this lap counter? What is the actual antenna width? Will it fit across a standard RCP 50cm track? |
Hey arch2b - Check this out...
http://www.kyosho.com/eng/support/in...ano/dnano.html There is a PDF there for the Home Edition... I just replied to your other post in the NanoTrax-Track Complete thread...I have been seeing these pop up on e-Bay from time to time for around $350 from Japan... |
Been using the home edition for 2 months and it works great. Limit is it only can allow 9 cars at any single time. In the near future Kyosho will have an upgraded software that would allow internet races.
http://images4.fotop.net/albums4/kev...n_R1153781.jpg http://images4.fotop.net/albums4/kev...n_R1153793.jpg http://images4.fotop.net/albums4/kev...n_R1153795.jpg http://images4.fotop.net/albums4/kev...n_R1154474.jpg Notice the detector under the RCP on the left of the picture http://images4.fotop.net/albums4/kev...n_R1154458.jpg |
thank you for the pictures.
i see from the text on the box that it is rcp compatible; Compatible to track width up to 970mm. Compatible with 50 size Kyosho (RCP) urethane track has anyone had the opportunity to try one of the mini-z transponders on this system? also, will they release a seperate mini-z specific software release? seems odd to have 2 versions for seperate scales when one would have sufficed. also, what exactly is removed from the software in the home edition? i have to assume it has something to do with the online aspect of it, ie; racednano website which is being used by shops at this point. |
Quote:
|
for core analog owners, this bit is interesting and a break from our required accessories
Quote:
|
just an update, one of these hit ebay today so it's coming!
Item number: 380137722716 $325 + $25 shipping to US. not bad at all if you ask me. |
I got mine from that ebay source two months ago; he puts them up every once and while and yes, it's simple and easy to use.
What I'm curious to know, is if there is any other race management software that is compatible, as the Kyosho software, although very easy to use, is minimalist and limited in options. |
we simply don't know yet. it has not been available to the public long enough for testing to be done.
as soon as flipside racing can get a hold of one or someone can do some port sniffing for them, they are eager to get thier free software compatible. if you willing to provide some assistance to them, i'm sure they would greatly appreciate it. |
..thanks, I will contact flipside ...I've been on his site before and he seems innovative.
|
has anyone confirmed what options are available with the home system?
what race management features does it offer, if any? what limitations does it have? is it a crippled version of the official store/online racing system? has anyone contacted/assisted flipside racing in port sniffing, etc.? |
ICS Lap Counter Review
OK kids, I broke down and got one so it's time for a real review. FYI, I have been a software developer working in the business for almost 30 years so I'll try not to be too critical:) For those who are unknowing and who like to speculate if other software will work, please don't. Kyosho is a closed environment and doesn't open their stuff up so others can tweak it. I don't see this changing anytime in the near future so the software they give us is all we get unless we hack it. I saw mention of "flipside" and if somebody could put me in touch I will see what I can help with.
What you get - In the box is the pickup strip, a USB cable, and a CD. Pretty simple software install. Plug in the device to available USB port and immediately tell the Hardware Wizard you will tell where the drivers are located. Point it to the driver directory on the CD, finish the wizard... then do it again for a second time for the serial port driver. Once that is done just run the installer for the lap manager software itself which is pretty straightforward. Physical installation - There are two boxes on either side of the pickup and they are small but big enough you will have to plan where you are going to put them. If you are using on a Mini-96 RCP system like I am you will have a lot of excess cable from the pickup. You cannot fold it up or stash it and the excess must go to the outside of the track so keep that in mind. Also the little boxes measure roughly 3.75"(l) x 2.25"(w) x .75"(h) and you will need to have one on the infield of the track. That means it will need to be located in the junction where infield curves exist. Software General - The software is fairly rudimentary and if you've ever gotten used to full featured race management software, you will be disappointed so just get used to it. This software is great and provides the minimal basics but falls way short of being any way to conduct real races. The absolute worst feature of this software is it's fixed resolution. They claim 1024x768 and even that is incorrect. It looks like you need at least 1200px wide so you can get to the buttons as well. I have it set up on my 1024x600 Asus Eee 901 netbook and it is doable if just running a couple cars but a little bit of a pain. I ended up setting it up on an older laptop so I didn't have to deal with moving the window around for everything I wanted to do. There is a minimum lap setting, but there is still an issue with it. By default it is set to 2 seconds which is fine but if a car crashes and comes to rest on the line, it will grant a lap to that car every 2 seconds until the car is marshaled. This also means if a driver is running behind they could theoretically cheat by parking on the line and racking up a couple short laps:) There is really no programmatic way to resolve this problem as the software cannot know one way or another what an intentional or unintentional lap may be. The best way to resolve this is run your track for a while and get an idea of what the fastest lap times are. Then just set the minimum lap time 'somewhat" under to that. Make sure to make it far enough below the fast time to allow for lap time improvements or you will inadvertently drop laps. The manual mentioned the system's inability to count 2 cars at the same time!! I am assuming this means the exact same time because I tried in vain to get this to fail during my initial testing and got cars within a couple thousandths of a second and the system worked fine. I am kind of ignoring this anyways because in all of my years of professional r/c racing, I have seen ties happen like 2, maybe 3 times ever! The documentation also mentioned compatibility with IC tags for Mini-Z so it looks like we will get to use those as soon as they become more readily available. The 9 cars up on screen are great but it sure would be great if this was configurable. As you have seen in the screenshots, each box shows laps, time, and fast lap along with the lap it happened on. There is also what I consider a pretty nasty bug. The first lap is always counted. In the Free Run mode it doesn't matter, but in the Sprint and Endurance modes, it is a big deal. Yes the partial lap is supposed to get counted towards the total time, but it is usually thrown out and the first time crossing the line that is the trigger for the actual start. It's odd they seem to throw it out for best lap, but they count it as a real lap in the list of laps. This is incorrect. Ether you do both, or not at all. Reading/Writing IC Data - This part is slick. Place a car on the pickup loop, find an unused car slot from the 9 given, and click "Enter". It reads the original car name which for me was “MAZDA 787B No.55 Le Mans 1991 Winner”. A bit wordy and not matching the body I was running so I changed mine to "Rothmans Porsche 962c" and saved. This is pretty neat because you can embed your name in your IC tag and take to with you to various tracks. Output Laps to CSV File - While there is not a printing option, at least they let you dump the current output to a CSV file. You can then import to an Excel spreadsheet or if you prefer, a Google Documents spreadsheet. By choosing the latter, you can share with friends:) Racing Mode, Free Run - Essentially open practice. Never ending clock so you can test and tune cars and setups. The best way to set up for this setting is to enter all of your cars (I only have 2) and start the clock. That way you can pick up any car, run and test and the laps get recorded without further computer interaction. Racing Mode, Sprint - In this mode you set a number of laps to reach and all cars race to be the first person to get that number of laps (5 by default). By default it is 5 and I was thinking this might be an interesting way to conduct qualifying. This mode is fairly useless for a single user unless you really wanted to see how fast you can get to a certain amount of laps. Racing Mode, Endurance - This is the most traditional race mode. With this mode you try to get the most number of laps within the given amount of time. By default it is set to 3 minutes which I think is perfect on our smaller home dNano tracks. Much better than the standard 5 minute qualifiers we run for bigger cars and tracks. Of course it is adjustable so you can make the race duration as long as you want. Hot Remote Tip - Since I was restricted to placing the pickup loop in one spot of my track room, I started to hate that it was on the other side of the room. Especially since I am in a long knee recovery from my accident. So my trick solution was to set up RDP (Remote Desktop Protocol) and I can remote into my other laptop and run everything from my netbook. Great if you decide to use a desktop to control the hardware but would like to leverage a wireless network and use a laptop to trigger events. |
I just have to ask this one question which I am sure is overlooked by most racers, is this hardware/software Mac-compatible? Or will it only work on PC's? How does the system connect to the computer itself? Just a simple USB plug? Most computer's these day's no longer have that serial "printer" port like they did back in the 80's-90's. Can you post pictures of your system set up with your Mini 96? I may get another track some day and it would be nice to have a timing system like this for my Dnano's.
Also, what are the tag's sold for the 1/28 Mini-Z's that will work with this system? |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i definitely agree the software is waaaay too basic and has loooooads of room for improvement. i've already contacted Kyosho directly asking about the next version, they'll let us all know when they've released it. ;) |
Quote:
|
the mini-z tags have not hit stores here domestically as i'm sure your aware you get items sometimes a month or more before kyosho usa. jpn already has the mini-z racer and f1 tags listed but you won't find a nibble even here.
what may be old news over seas is often new news here in the u.s. due to the severe lag in information distribution. for clubs, sprint mode is almost pointless as you should be able to configure by time or laps or both. our club has run sprint races maybe 10 times in 6 years. i'm sure it has practical use in stores but for clubs, it's more than likely used frequently or not at all. rather than wasting time with the kyosho software i'm waiting for flipside to get thier software ported to the unit. at lease until kyosho can step up thier game with something that offers tools users really need. more than likely by then, flipside will have thier race management upgrade completed. what is so surprising is that they got the hardware/software stuff from core analog and thier software, while flawed atleast offers what home users need such as race management, etc. core never seemed to have the same limitation re: simultaneous lap counts. i've had car parked over the loop an never had others not count as far as i can recall. us the new system as finiky with usb ports as core analog is? it's hit or miss with core and usb ports. some work and some just won't. |
the USB port is real problem arch... i think it severely affects data transfer. the fact that you can't bend the thing makes the hardware even more problematic.
awe come on... ya gotta let me enjoy being the first to get everything a LITTLE bit :D |
hmm, seems they did not make much of an improvement on the usb port issues with the kyosho version.
at least we won't have to worry about antenna spacing since they now use a ribbon. maybe that in some way causes the multiple lap count issues as the antenna based core system does not have that problem (theoretically it would i believe). bask in the glow :) then rub it in to all of us usa customers whom get stuck in the kyosho time warp:p seriously, it's good to see you got the online shop up. i always like having options. |
If one had the money, is it worth getting this system at home so you can race your Dnano's? I maybe racing alone, but still would be nice to see lap times and duration. Plus, if it'll work with Z's, it'll be great practice.
|
Quote:
I am unfamiliar with any of the USB problems but have used other devices that use a USB/16550UART interchange and there are lots of opportunities for things to go wrong. Especially from one computer to the next because this hardware and the drivers can interact so differently. I wonder why they do this. USB _is_ a serial interface itself after all so you aren't really gaining anything like speed which is the real benefit of 16550 high speed serial ports (COM ports). It all has to go through the same pipe, right? The only reason I can see why people do this is to support legacy hardware that was designed for the old serial ports and they want to add the convenience of USB plug n play. Just adds too much additional complexity for the users and developer if you ask me. Well I managed to find this flipside you guys referenced and when work mellows some I will try to offer some help. Even if it isn't coding but some spiffy graphics, seems like a worthy project. BTW, he makes the source code available so now my curiosity really gets me wondering what is happening under the covers. Gotta love open source community projects so we'll see. |
you can flind the FlipSide vendor forum on mini-zracer HERE.
pinwc4 did a good job at making easy to use, open source race software that is currently compatible with core analog. i know he was working on giro-z, lap-z and currently the kyosho ics home system. here is the introduction to his forum: Flip Side Racing Software Intro: Flip Side Racing Software is an open source, cross platform lap counting software project that currently supports the Core Speedway RFID based lap counter. The software has been developed primarily by me with a large amount of input, testing and other help from the Mini-Z community. Get the latest version of the software from http://www.flipsideracing.org/ Features
FAQ Q: What generic tags can I use? A: So far everyone that I know of is using various TI ISO15693 compatible tags. I have a list of some of the known functioning tags on the project website, http://www.flipsideracing.org/ Q: How much do generic RFID tags cost? A: Usually around 1$ each Q: I found a bug, how do I report it? A: The best way for me is if you go to the project website and create a ticket. You have to register an account first but that is easy, you only need to set a username and password though an email is good to enter also even if it is not requires. After you have an account you can then create tickets for bugs or feature requests. You can also email me through the forum here or even create a thread and I will respond. Q: Can you add feature XYZ? A: Possibly, depending on the difficulty and the number of people wanting the feature. I am willing to consider any idea but my time is limited. Q: What is the status of your lap counting hardware? A: Work still continues slowly as I am focused on polishing the software. Q: How can I help with the project? A: There are many ways you can help. I can use willing people to write documentation, create graphics or program. Q: Do you accept donations instead? A: Yes, while I am doing this currently as a hobby the project does have real costs for hosting the software and the programming tools I use. There is a link on the project website for donations, http://www.flipsideracing.org/ Q: Where is the documentation? A: While I have started to create some documentation on the project website I do not have much of it done yet. But in the program if you let your mouse hover over something you have a question about a little bit of help text may pop up. I have entered help text for many of the controls in the program. Q: How do I change the background? A: You can overwrite the BG_Frame.jpg file in the theme directory or copy your background to the theme directory and edit the theme.xml to point to the name of your file. Q: I changed my club logo on the General Config page but the Race Settings page still shows the Flip Side logo, why? A: The club logo setting on the General Config page is only for the logo that gets inserted into reports. To change the logo on the Race Settings page you need to edit the theme.xml. You need to change the mainlogo and mainlogomask entries. The mask is a black and white image that defines the transparency. Q: The text color used for the racers is hard to see, how do I change it? A: On the Select Racers screen click some of the text, you should get a popup window that allows you to change the text color. Q: Can I use the keyboard for counting laps instead since I do not have lap counting hardware? A: Yes, just set the UID of the racers to whatever keyboard character you want to use. Except r, do not use r as hitting that key will cause the software to announce the ranks. Q: How do I sort heats, qualifiers and mains? A: The software does not have event management yet. That is a feature I will add eventually but it is far from complete. Q: Will this mess up my Core tags? A: No, the Flip Side software does not write anything to the Core tags. They will continue to function with the Core software after being used with our software. Screenshots Race configuration screen http://www.flipsideracing.org/upload...raceconfig.png Racer selection screen http://www.flipsideracing.org/upload...lectracers.png Race screen http://www.flipsideracing.org/uploads/pinwc4/fsrace.png Statistics screen http://www.flipsideracing.org/uploads/pinwc4/fsstat.png |
here is his compatibility list i found:
Currently the Flip Side Racing software is limited in its hardware support. Here is a list what is supported so far and what has been requested Supported Lap Counting Hardware
Incomplete Lap Counting Hardware
Other Supported Hardware
Requested Hardware Support
Hardware that will not work
In order to determine if I can add support for additional hardware I need someone who has access to the hardware to work with so that I can get various information information from them. Or if possible it would be quicker for me if I could get access to the hardware for a week. If you have access to the hardware that you would like supported the first step I need done is to capture some of the raw information that lap counter produces. From Windows the way you do this is as follows:
|
back to the kyosho system, beyond the few bits that come in the box, is there any accessory list with all the transponder parts kits listed?
|
where can you buy a Core Speedway system from? I have spent quite alot of time looking and am at a loss
Thanks D |
I don't believe you can purchase these new anymore. soon after Core sold or whatever deal they made with Kyosho, they cut production and sold off all the remaining systems. i do not believe they are supported anymore either. you can still purchase transponders however which will work with the Kyosho system.
you will have to search for them in the secondary market now. you can occasionally find one being sold in the mini-zracer.com marketplace. |
The core system is no longer made; and yes, the company never returned any of my inquireis a year ago. The Kyosho system is a licensed version of the core system though, and althought he software is limiting, the hardware works fine, and the d'nano has the pre-requisite transponder built into to the bottom of the chassis already. One or two of the HTUSA stores that sell d'nanos have the lap timer I believe, or there is always one for sale on ebay.
There is also an old core system on ebay, although I would not buy anything that is no longer made/supported? |
unless your confortable in spending $300 or so on the core system with no warranty essentially, i would suggest purchasing the new kyosho system. it will read core transponders and i'm sure flipside will have the software worked out shortly offering something more on par with what we were expecting in terms of functionality.
|
...well, I hope Brian at Flipside reads this board once and a while ...I've tried on several occassions to register with both the flipside.org and slatlake mini-z sites to no avail ... there are some commercial operator features I'd like to have added to the Flipside and would be willing to help/pay/donate! If anyone has his email address and could forward it, that would be great.
|
email me please, i'll do my best to make the connection happen for you :)
|
Hello!
I have made a request about the kyosho system on the mini-z racer forum. It seems that he should have received the kyosho lap system and he was looking for transponder the last time he gives news. I hope he can manage his software to work on the kyosho port. The original software is so poor... |
I have a question about this system. Let's suppose I finally build my dream track, a 1/43 scale Monte Carlo-ish hill-climb thingy. I don't want to race laps, but instead race from point A to point B with fastest time being the winner, just like WRC.
Can this system do just that? Just point A to point B time's? |
it's a fixed loop/ribbon. you would imagine you would have to set it to ignore the first lap (crossing over the loop/ribbon) than you could simply start when the horn sounds and when you cross the loop/ribbon you have your time.
this could be answered quickly on mini-zracer where there are plenty of people well versed and much more experienced with running core/kyosho ics (depending on what software your using). |
Marco, you are referring to rally-type timing system -- I doubt you could do that without multiple systems and netbooks at each "check point". And you'd still have to do the math to subtract the times from one system's checkpoint to the other ...I guess it's possible, but @ $700 checkpoint (Kyosho lap timer + netbook), it would very expensive.
|
lorne, 2 core loops will provide drag strip timing and calculate speed. the software has this option built into it.
|
...interesting; but are two timing loops compatible with one computer? Are the orignal Core loops USB or serial-bus connection?
|
Thank's guy's. This is very usefull information. The system I'm talking about is mostly for the Dnano's as it'll most likely be the Dnano's I build the track for. Seems to me 1/43 scale will be much easier than 1/28.
|
Quote:
the system is usb, just as the kyosho ics is being that kyosho simply took core and updated it. the major hardware difference being the ribbon vs. the loop, as far as i know |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:14 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.