"SuperCharged 5 Cell" SPEC2 SKYLINE GTR

[MicroRCracer]

Hello folks!! I guess I must be the original Epoch 5 cell creator and racer so far in here in this thread and later soon to be 6 cells when I add a small mini-z turbo unit, upgrade to a bigger FET, or even stack 2-3 FETS like the mini-z's.. Also, I will be re-handwinding these armatures to a lower turn to the best performance and top speed in finding the sweet spot without blowing up the motor or electronics..

Anyways for now, Just finished my 5 cell Epoch Spec 2 racer!! I call it my SuperCharged Skyline GTR DRAGSTER!! There are 4 nimh's cells in the chassis and so I mount(double-sided tape the bottom of battery) the 5th nimh cell on the top front of the chassis and carefully dremeled the hood of the car to make it fit just right.. When adding a fifth cell, it will not fit in the "passengers area" of the car and so i wanted to make it look like a "Fast and the Furious" Dodge Charger style with a big blower or giant super charger on top of the hood, giving it the serious dragster style look along with the major superb Epoch power of extra torque and top end speed.. As far as handling, its still excellent!! I believe, in a short to medium style Mini-Z track, this 5 cell SuperCharged Skyline GTR SPEC2 will definitely hang or take the mini-z on the road course part and small straight aways..I believe this is true since I also specialize in Mini-Z Racing Development for insane speeds and handling.

Runtime's about 5 minutes of nonstop peeling out along with full on straight away speeds and 9 minutes of small medium mini-z track road course racing. You have to use a peak charger charging at .5 to .6 amps monitoring it still so the cells dont get fully too warm or hot.. Once you go five cell, you have to lose the stock charger since it will not be able to charge it to the fullest with the best performance..You can use it, but you wont get the full optimum power or charge out of it... Also, lose the stock transmitter radio and upgrade with a Kyosho Mini-Z Perfex radio.. I'm definitely using this one since it allows the car to go out farther, less glitches or no glitching, and because it allows you to adjust the steering travel to avoid spin-outs on fast turns on the track, since the car's super fast now.. With this setup, you can now do crazy burnouts in circles, not like the boring stock 3 cell nimh.. Im also planning on going 5-6 cell nicads one day, to see the true power and speed of EPOCH SPEC2 RACER since nicads offer more punch, however, less run-time!!

It gets better because now when I use my Intellipeak peak charger, i can now monitor the battery to make sure it doesnt overheat when charging.. Another cool thing about it is the battery gets to be air-cooled..

If you notice, the 5th cell on the hood is carefully painted silver as well to match the body. I even lifted the rear end to make it look like a dragster..I cant lower the front end cuz it rubs when turning. However, I might shave the front fenders off a little with my dremel tool so that the front wheels will clear the front fenders when I lower them, reversing the shock spacers..

***SPECIAL NOTE***- When adding a 5th cell to your epoch, your electronics may fry.. i didnt take the chance so i upgraded the FET so it can take more beating.. I did this to my "5 cell Spec1" as well since it didnt last too long and burnt out on me in the past..


Anyways, check out the picture below tell me what you guys think?? :D

[MicroRCracer]

Here's another pix..

[MicroRCracer]

pix 3

[MicroRCracer]

pic 4

[MicroRCracer]

pic 5

[MicroRCracer]

pic 6..

[MicroRCracer]

Last pic 7

[fatdoggy]

Would it be possible to mount the cell right in front, on the bumper?

[akura2]

to make one of those cans like on the front of Cadzilla?

http://www.wallesdator.dingojunction.com/Vintage%20Boyds/Cadzilla/Cadzzilla%20large.jpg

[akura2]

here

[MicroRCracer]

sorry, theres no place for it to fit on the front of the bumper..plus, under front impact, i wouldnt want to damage the battery..

by the way, that not a real RC car is it(purple car above in picture)????

[tinyrc]

MicroRCracer, amazing job, not only is the fact that you got the 5th cell working an evolution in Epochs, but that you made it blend in with the car so nicely and everything - superb! :cool: What we really want to see now is video of this beast in action! :D

[MicroRCracer]

thanks for the compliments TinyRC!! i will now start learning videography asap to try and make it possible to hook up in the internet so you guys can see what i see and feel what i feel with this breakthrough.. i will get help from my buddy and when i do come through with it, you will be amazingly shocked how agile and fast this car is for its size.. I run this car all over my house and to be honest, this thing takes off like a speedy roach from point A to point B..:D

[gertman]

how does it handle? Doesn't it flip alot? Mine does with only the 4 cells.

[usagi]

wow its way cool! great job!

[MicroRCracer]

it handles real well since i lowered the rear end a little more . wish they would have ball diffs though.. my 5 cell only flips over if im going full speed on carpet and then making a fast turn..im using the kyosho perfex transmitter where i can adjust the dual rate steering just right for turning conditions..i also mastered the steering of this car to accomodate racing conditions and throttle to not floor it when only needed to..it is tempting though since i always get throttle happy and thats what makes me spin out at times..:D

[MicroRCEngineering]

Micromotori,

I like the idea. I would like to know if you would be willing to do a comparison test against my mini Z's. This is not a challenge. It is only to see how my mini Z will do compared to your Modded Epoch. I don't doubt that it's fast, but I'm really curious because I have never seen something smaller than a mini Z go faster than a mini Z. Let me know if you are interested.


I'm done with the challenge. this is just for comparison. I wouldl love to see an 1/43 beat a 1/28th. and if you're cool with it, 1/28th on a 1/28th.

Good luck on the auction, and congratulations. I bumped into your auction, as I was looking for an epoch (which made me curious/impressed because your ad said, "beats a mini Z".

This is NOMOTORLIMIT, btw, just in case. I know that you are Micromotori. I'm only mentioning who I am to clear the picture. btw, when tinyrc.com first came out, my original name was micromotori. It's a micro world after all.

[MicroRCracer]

I'll take you up on that for the comparison later in the future when the waves settle down, but not right early around the moment...however, your offer is appreciated..

Just in case of being misunderstood, my suped up 5 cell Epoch Spec 2 creation isnt intended to beat heavily modified mini-z's for a straightaway top-speed contest(who knows? maybe later on it will though, somewhat..), but this amazing "half the mini-z size" contender does prove to hang or straight up win, in small to medium mini-z tracks consisting of major road course turns and small to medium sized back-stretched straightaways against modified mini-z's.. As far as Epoch Dragster Speed, I can only tell you this much, that, this car will surely smoke a stock mini-z with a 9 to 10 tooth pinion, racing for topspeed.. On office carpet, the high torque of this car grips well and takes off like a speedy roach.. Being the only top contending Epoch amongst the Mini-z's at the track is very exciting and hoping i wont be the only one, for maybe later, Epoch Spec 2's will evolve or multiply in no time for the next Micro Rc talk of the town...:)

Btw, i got the micromotori name from my Picco engines. It guess it is very coincidental though..:)

[MicroRCEngineering]

Sounds good. The mini Z I plan to compare it with won't be my Heavily Modded Mini Z (35 mph). that is out of commission right now.

I am interested in comparing it to one of my ordinary mini z's.

How does it compare to a Z with an X-speed?

[MicroRCracer]

Ive raced with several guys with X-speeds on a medium track and seem to keep up or take them on turns or straightaways. havent really dragged raced any X-speed Z's, but i think i can either beat'em or atleast hang with them..I'll race my friend(s) on carpet and tell you the results when i get the chance.

[MicroRCracer]

I just raced the xspeed(9t pinion) mini-z with full ball bearings and beatem' on a carpet drag race by about 10-12 mini-z car lengths!! I pulled the Z off the start by a lot since my car is much lighter and until the end of the 40 ft. line!! Oh what a feeling!! I love what Epoch does for me!!

[MicroRCEngineering]

That's pretty good. How do you think it will do against mini z motor with a Tamiya mini 4wd armature? (I'm not trying to bring something from the past, but you know very well that Xspeed is no longer the top notch motor) But overall, that's pretty good. Let me know if/when you would allow me to do a comparison with my mini Z powered by my own (personally hand wound) motor. I'm curious, and i'm sure some readers are as well.

[MicroRCracer]

Ok Rod..Sounds good..Hehe!! Cant get enough of this Epoch!! Hehe!! It is really amazing though how a small 1/43 car and smaller size motor than the mini-z is out of the 1/28th scale class and teaches a mini-z a funny lesson on the roadcourse or mild mini-z mod drag racing.. I'll let you know someday when I'm done with experimenting on handwound turns of the Epoch armature and experimenting on other kinds of FETS to make Epoch have NOMICROMOTORILIMIT or battery limit...Just dont want to lose my focus on being on a role right now, since i think Im into a new possible break through again!! Anyways, I'll let you know once the Epoch Racing and Development is fully situated to the fullest... :D

[gertman]

Why don't you let the guy put a 10, 11 or 12 tooth pinion on a GPM mod motor. Are you reaching top speed in the alotted distance? Is the Mini-Z? Are you beating him in acceleration and top speed? What kind of tires is the Mini-Z using? Is he spinning his tires at the start-up?

You realize, you now have out cell'ed the Mini-Z so really beating one is not such a far reach.:D

[MicroRCracer]

Gertmeister,

Im just sharing an experience that MicroRcEngineering got me curious to do in comparing speeds with an average modified Mini-Z...I think im beating my buddy's mini-z on speed and acceleration.. I peel out more than the Mini-Z off the start and still woop him..Basically, cant really floor it cuz it might fish-tale.. Just to let everybody know, My Epoch is not meant to be a full dragster mini-z killer...These are just comparison tests which look very funny or amazing when a 1/43 Epoch beats a 1/28 Mini-Z, when its supposed to be out of its league..Im still working on my Epoch Racing and Development in conducting various experiments to have the fullest raced out staged Epoch Spec2 Racer that will probably or most likely beat a GPM motorized Mini-Z whether its on the track or drag and top end speed!! Right now, im on like stage 2 or 3 and want to reach like stage 10 or somethin'...

[tinyrc]

Ok Rod..Sounds good..Hehe!!

Hey, it's great to see you two getting on okay again! :)

[e_lm_70]

MicroRCracer:

Have you just add a 5th cell on your Epoch, or made some further tuning?

My 4 cell Epoch can't compate at all in speed and acceleration with my Mini-Z F1 with just a X-Speed motor.

The speed checker report 28km/h for Mini-Z against 17km/h for Epoch ! Visually the two look very very different in power !

The Mini-Z F1 has a far better traction compared to the Epoch.

I can just guess that on a Track is the better dirver how is winning, since they are both difficult to drive at 100% possibility. BTW the Mini-Z F1 with a break has a futher advantage on handling !

e_lm_70

P.S: I don't like the impact of a 5th cell on epoch, I don't like to cut the body for it ! I'm thinking of unbuild a 9V NiMh (or NiCd) batt and trying to get out 5 cell or 6 cell in a small size.
Other way is using the smallest NiMh cell, it is just 12x6 (43mAh) or 12x3 (22mAh)

[MicroRCracer]

e_lm_70,



I modified the FET, fine tuned my suspension, semi-glued the wheels so they dont come off and the rehandwinded the armature.. I wish i could race against your mini-z F1 for fun to show you the biggest difference in speed and handling, especially with in small to medium narrow tracks..

[e_lm_70]

Where is located the FET on the Epoch ?

... I don't think I will ever rewind my engine ... only if I will buy a spare engine first ! But this means to make a second order from HLJ, the only shop so far that as delivered just half of the ordered goods !

I have just made a booster Epoch, with 6 cell.
The speed now is 26km/h so close to my Mini-Z X-Speed.
I believe that for me the easier way to get more speed is to find a longer gear.

Accelerating full power is hard on a standard flat floor, since the diff tend to transfer more power on one side. On a carpet the car is more controllable !

e_lm_70

P.S: It look like that there is a possibility for me to be in US for 3 months for a possible project in California ... if so maybe I will be able to check live your skils as a driver and as a 'mod'er !

PP.SS: This weekend I should go on a indor track in Austria, I will be able to compare my 6cell epoch with my F1 X-Speed, but I believe that the Mini-Z shuld be at least 20% faster on lap time !
http://www.subau.at/rc/reportage_indoor01.htm

PPP.SSS: Also my wheels tend to get often off, so far I just add some tape in the middle for make more strong the connection.

[MicroRCracer]

e_lm_70 :


Sounds good!! Can we see a picture of your 6 cell Epoch? What body are you using or are you not using a body at all? I think i will try the 6 cell mod too, but use the lancer or impreza body to see if it fits under the shell. Would be nice to meet you some time in california when you get here.. I would like to race with you and compare both modded epochs.. Oh yeah, for the wheels, just use mechanics silicone instead of tape. It allows it to be taken off if needed to and doesnt stretch the plastic of the wheels.. Would be nice to get together someday!

[e_lm_70]

I have added a pic on the 6 cell mod thread:
http://tinyrc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=32583#post32583

I have used the Subaru WRC body.
But it look the same space available also on my Mitsubishi WRC (but it till has 4 cell only ... need to order oder two 120mAh from Conrad)

Here is a crappy photo of my two mod Epoch compared with the similar version on iRacer and Bit.

[e_lm_70]

Originally posted by natedogg4674
i was just about to do the 5 cell mod, im not now, i dont know the first thing about how to upgrade the electronics to be able to handle the increased voltage

I got up to 6 cell ... no Electronic update !

The only proble so far ... since I have lost the Cap around the motor I have a little interference with the steering ... going to fix it soon since I have a new Cap now !

The Electronic of the Epoch is so good that can handle 6 cell with no problem ... I have tested evily , even on carpet ... no problem at all . The PCB has never get hot ... the motor has just get Warm !

6 cell compared to 4 cell make a big difference !

The big PCB protection I guess it come out of the smal cell, they are not capable to provide too much Amp ... so they can't damage the PCB ... since they are limited in Amp ... it doesn't really metter how many cell you put in serie ... the maximum Amp will be always the same ... it just change the Volt !

And for my opinon is far better to put the two cell inside the body then make a cut on the front for put some additional one !

e_lm_70

P.S: It could be that you need electronic update only if you re-wind the motor ! Thing that I don't raccomend if you are not an expert !

[MicroRCracer]

natedogg4674,

To be honest, ive tried 5 cells before and fried my electronics on the EPOCH SPEC 2 racer.. Im not sure if it was just me having a defective bad luck ESC or what.. Just letting you know the other posibility through my experience...

[ClockwOrk]

lol a little belated, but the charger look is classic!! Great work!

[chelboed]

Has anyone else fried their Epoch by running 5 cells? I don't want to buy more than 1, so I will probably just stick with 4 unless y'all tell me otherwise. I have been modding bits/frying bits too long, now. I just want to race and enjoy it. I'm tired of having to fix my cars.

[e_lm_70]

Originally posted by chelboed
Has anyone else fried their Epoch by running 5 cells? I don't want to buy more than 1, so I will probably just stick with 4 unless y'all tell me otherwise. I have been modding bits/frying bits too long, now. I just want to race and enjoy it. I'm tired of having to fix my cars.

So far I'm was too lazy to update my 2nd Epoch to 6 cells (I got the cells, but not the mood for use my solder).
BTW my 1st Epoch with 6 cell is till well alive, and ultra fast, compare to my 4cell it is really 50% faster !

The best protection in the Epoch is due to the type of Cell.
The 1/3 AAA NiMh isn't able to provide enough Amp for make the ESC in trouble. 2nd the 6cell 120mAh will not last more then 10minutes, so it will be not too long for over heat the PCB ... BTW I have tested my Epoch and the PCB don't get even hot.

The only draw back of 6cell is some instability on the stearing, it is not a meter of Cap around motor, it is probably too much power given to the servo, cousing it to be little bit instable... I guess it need a new resistance between PCB and servo motor for make it more soft. BTW the car is allways very drivable only in some rare case like TX off or switch on can couse some epilettich attach on stearing.

BR

e_lm_70

P.S: Also my Mini-Z have been succesfully upgraded with 6 cell (top speed over 40km/h)

[fastboy]

ahem....you think its just amps that will kill your epochs circuit board??..WRONG WRONG WRONG.

please dont say that because you are using small cells that the circuit wont get damaged,too much voltage regardless of the cell type can and will destroy it,however the only way to find out what the limit of voltage it will take is an expensive trial and error
situation

dave

[e_lm_70]

Originally posted by fastboy
ahem....you think its just amps that will kill your epochs circuit board??..WRONG WRONG WRONG.



:-)))))))

There are two type of possible damage in a PCB when the Volt get increased:
1 - Immediate damege since some component can't handle high voltage, causing a short and cousing an irreversible damege ... so you try if work fine for 2 second the PCB is safe for this damage.
2 - Power dissipation damage, due to a continous usage with an increasing temperature in a component.

So my Epoch clearly have no problem on handlying 1

What can scare is point 2 ... let see more in detail:
Power dissipation : W=V*I
Where is critical the power dissipation on the Epoch: On the Main Motor ESC.
How much power is dissipated in the ESC ?
- It is W=V*I where V = R * I (The R in the ESC can be assumed costant and based on the ESC type)
So W= I*I*R

1 cell can provide the same maximum ammount of Amp like 6 in sequence.

What is critical it is during a transiction like an accelleration or changin from forward to backward, in teory this situation will generate a Amp peak ... this peak will be short (an this is safe for use) and as well limited in Amp since the cell can't provide too much amps ... so in this situation the Volt around the 6 cell will be dropped since the 6 cells are not able to provide the adequate power.

So using 6 cell will not make big improvment in acceleration but will provide a very good top speed.

e_lm_70

[chelboed]

Do you think that the reason your steering is fritzing out is because you didn't do the FET upgrade? Maybe the added FET transfers more power to the motor and doesn't overpower the servo.

Did you guy's stop posting on this thread to cool off or what? I am still interested in how the 6cell car w/o FET stack is performing.

And MRCracer... why not show how to do the FET upgrade? Everyone else here on the forum is ready and willing to help other people to learn to make their cars better and faster. Look at Gertman's 4cell mod. Pretty tedious, but the step by step instructions has brought so much joy to the lives of every 4cell Epoch owner.

Don't be so stingy, man. Share a little. If the Mini-z guy's had never shown anyone how to do their's, everyone would be in the Mini'z "dark ages", right? Now look how much has opened up. Sign your name to it and demand credit if you want, who really cares who came up with it as long as people love it.

[e_lm_70]

Originally posted by chelboed
Do you think that the reason your steering is fritzing out is because you didn't do the FET upgrade? Maybe the added FET transfers more power to the motor and doesn't overpower the servo.


No ... I have the same steering problem with my Mini-Z with 6 cells.
So far, I till have to find the time for make some experiment in order to fix/minimize the problem. But my best guess it is that adding a/some Diodes or Resistence in series with the servo motor will solve the problem !
But the noise effect on the Epoch due to the 6cells is not critiacal ... it is just for have a cool clean mod !


Did you guy's stop posting on this thread to cool off or what? I am still interested in how the 6cell car w/o FET stack is performing.


Few posting it is because the Epoch scene is lmited !
Only very few people are hiding information, and this is true both in the Mini-Z scene and as well in Epoch.


If you want to go for a 6cell on epoch this step is trivial:

Just go first for the 4cell as documented.
Somewhere there is a pic of my 6cell car, but basically you just have to take 2 cells, make a linear serie of these two, position this "long" 2.4V NiMh cell in the rear axe, just behing the PCB, add wires for connect to the 4cell that is connected inside the lower part of the car ... and that's it.

Only issue, you just need a different charger, since the stock one can at best charge 4 cell !

Good luck


e_lm_70

[chelboed]

Yeah, I don't think I would have a problem figuring out how to do the added cells. I have been doing that with bit's and Zip's for a long time. I was just talking about letting others know how to stack the FET's like the other guy did. I think that would be a killer mod to protect your electronics and get great speed. If you haven't had any problems with your electronics w/o upgrading the FET's, then I may just have to try it.

Thanks.