How to Build a 1/87 Scale RC truck a.k.a.TTTT

[Overlander]

This is a long atricle. Please keep a copy of it for your reference when you are ready to build a 1/87 truck.

If you are serious about wanting to build a 1/87 TTTT, please read on......

For direction on my first TTTT project, I mostly used pictures from the German websites. Since I can't read German, I tried to use Bablefish as much as I could to translate, but that is only about 85% effective. Bablefish would give you results in English like, "make nice still depronplatten ergattert and a small carrier tinkered". Huh?! So allot was just guess work and interpolation. I did make email contact with a German guy who writes a little English, and he gave me some pointers.

At first I thought I had to somehow buy all German parts and electronics, but a little research showed I could get almost all of it here in the U.S. The only German parts I wish I had are some of the gearboxes from microantrieb.com. Their webpage is impossible to translate because there is no actual text. It is all in bitmaps. Go figure... I ended up using a U.S. gearbox made for model railroad applications and the ground clearance is not that great.

I would really like to see more interest here in the U.S. about TTTT (or whatever U.S. name we decide to give it) so I will share as much about my experience as I can, and eventually us non-German connected folks will have enough experience to help each other out without having to use bablefish. The problem is, that most young hobbyists in the U.S. are NOT MODELERS.

Our collective brains have evolved smaller and smaller until no one wants to build anything any more. Most kids just want their RC toys RTR (ready to run) right out of the box, and so no one is learning the skills of model engineering. This is evident just looking at a typical hobby shop inventory. Try to ask a typical hobby shop employee about anything other than a RTR T-Max, and all you get is a drooling "Rain Man" impersonation for an answer. But I digress. My point is that this hobby is not likely to take off and be popular because it is ALL custom fabrication and not likely ever be available in a kit form (though maybe RTR?).



HOW I DID IT...

Basically, the size of even the smallest off-the-shelf electronics prohibit building anything other than a truck with a covered cargo area to fit it all in. I have a special interest in Unimogs so I decided to use the Roco UNIMOG body.

Lesson learned: for a first attempt, the MAN 5t would be better, because it has more room than the UNIMOG.

I decided to build a frame out of brass, but it could have been done from a flat deck made of fiberglass or other composite. The problem with composite frames is that they are too light. This is one form of micro modeling where you want things to be heavy. I bent the frame rails exactly the same shape as the scale Roco UNIMOG frame rails were.

Lesson learned: No need to do that. A flat rectangular frame would have been sufficient and less work. Also the scale frame interfered with my servo placement and I hade to modify it later (see below).

The pieces of frame were soldered together using basic electrical solder. Silver solder is stronger but not necessary and requires too much heat for these little parts. All of your joints would melt as you tried to solder a new one.

The best way to design any custom RC model is to lay out the design of the chassis in the following order:

First, the motor and drive train. This is the most important system, of course.
Second, the steering geometry. (I blew that one when I made the scale frame. I am sharing this so others wont make the same mistake on their first truck)

Everything else has to be designed to fit around those two systems (especially the frame). The motor and gearbox are relatively tall and needed to stick up through the cargo bed of the UNIMOG. The steering servo needed to be mounted in the cargo bed. The Roco plastic is soft and easy to work with but after you cut all the holes in the floor of the cargo bed it becomes very flimsy and delicate. This is significant because you will be holding and handling this piece of the truck most of all during construction.

You will have to find a way to mount the bed to the brass frame. CA glue will be used when all the geometry is aligned but that is almost the last step of construction. I ended up tapping two 1.5mm holes in the rear corners of the frame so I could screw the bed down. The bed has to be attached and un-attached to the frame about a hundred times while you are working out all of the geometry, so gluing is not an option.

The only way to fit all 4 batteries in a UNIMOG is with 2 of them stuffed in the cab. Since the idea of TTTT is to be scale, you will need to carefully dissect the cab, bumper and fenders to be attached back in place on the brass frame later. I glued the fenders, bumpers and cab together, then screwed that assembly into the front of the frame with 1.5mm screws through the front bumper.

Wheelbase/Truck Height
I matched the wheelbase from the scale UNIMOG and made marks on the frame where the axels should be. This an important part of the overall geometry design. Also, the height or "lift" of the whole truck needs to be considered. I made my body 2mm higher than the stock. This allows for the
front axel to articulate without hitting the fenders.

Front Axel
The most time consuming part of the process is the design and creation of the front axel. I managed to find on one of the German websites a PDF plan for a front axel. It was not exactly what I needed for the UNIMOG, because it has a smaller width, but I used it as a basis. I did everything in millimeters and found it really easy to do. I used a Sherline mill to make the main axel housing but if you don't have access to a mini mill, you can
fab all of this stuff using razor saws and files. The knuckles are just 3x3mm brass blocks with 1/16" holes drilled vertically for pivot pints and 2mm holes drilled horizontally tapped to accept the 2x5mm axle screws.

Wheels
I used 2x6mm bearings for the front wheels. The Roco tires fit right over them and a 2mm screw into the mini steering knuckle worked as axels. Really simple and very effective!

Suspension
I decided to make only the front axel articulate for my first project, and this is pretty common on most of the German trucks I have seen pictures of. Keep it simple. I just used a single pivot point in the middle of the axle, sandwiched between a pair of brass angles suspended from the frame. For the pivot, I used a 00-80 screw and nut, so I could remove the axle as it was
constructed.

Steering
At the beginning of the design, I knew where the servo had to be, but I was not sure what the linkage geometry would look like. You almost have to have 90% of the rest of the design done, including how the body will be mounted, before you can tackle the linkage. I had dreamed up all kinds of complex control horns pushing and pulling etc., but when it came down to it, I found that the UNIMOG was so short, I could just link the servo control horn directly to the knuckle. Simple is always better. I used 1/16" brass wire as control rods. For the control points on the knuckles and soldered pieces of bent brass with 1/16" holes for the rods to the knuckles. I had to angle the control points on the knuckles in about 15 degrees to avoid hitting the inside of the tires.

Receiver
I am a criminal. I am forced to use the aircraft 72MHZ frequency for the radio because no company makes a 75MHZ or 27MHZ reciver small enough. If you know of one, LET ME KNOW! I cut off all of the pins where the servos connect and soldered all contacts. It barely fits around my gearbox.

Speed Control
I tore apart a HiTec HS-55 micro servo, and used that as a speed control. I removed the pot and replaced it with a mini adjustable 5k ohm resister. This makes it easier to find the neutral point and is much smaller. I mounted the resistor facing down through a hole in the bottom of the cargo bed so I could adjust it from the bottom of the truck. Note: If you have never used a servo as a micro speed control, email me and I will tell you all about it.

The rest is just assembly and fitting and re-fitting as you go along. If you don't have a blueprint or manual to build from, you have to try to design as much as you can at the beginning, then play it by ear the rest of the way. It's like playing chess alone; you have to consider if placing a piece in a certain location is going to effect another critical piece further towards the end of construction.

If your eyesight and nerves can hold out, you CAN build one of these little things! My German penpal says a little red wine sometimes helps.

Parts List
All prices are approximate.....

Servo - Cirrus CS-10 BB $26
Reciver - GWS GWR-4P $24
Rx Crystal - GWS micro $14
Speed Control - converted HiTec HS-55 micro servo $25
Batteries - four 120mAh NimHs $24
Transmitter - JR 4 channel $130 (another freakin' radio set with a receiver I didn't even use on this project!)
Gearbox - NWSL 172-6 50:1 w/ 60 tooth brass flywheel on input shaft $30
Motor - some little motor out of a micro servo I found in one of my junk parts drawers w/ 9 tooth pinion. $??

Total gear reduction - I dunno, you do the math. I got 50:1 to start with, then I add the 60:9 teeth ratio for the motor and flywheel. Whatever that is. I should have stayed in school and learned more math............ If someone can figure this out, please let me know.

Other materials:
Two 2x6mm bearings for front wheels $8
micro adjustable resistor
1/16" square brass $1
1/8 x 1/8 brass angle $1
some more brass $2?
nerves of steel $priceless

[Overlander]

Ready to roll...:p

[hally]

you have made your homework .
i hope that you find some modellers who build their trucks to make competitions . sorry for my weak english

[Overlander]

Danke Hally!

Your English is excellent! Please stay involved with this thread!

I need some advice on creating an HO trials park. I have never made a plaster mountain berfore:D

[Hicountry]

Looks great Overlander!!!

I have a third truck now........maybe I should start converting them!! Soon.

[arch2b]

your skills are unmatched!
i believe you've inspired me to give it a try. i found a truck that i think will offer enough room. i'll attach the picture. thanks for the detailed "how to".

again, great job

[Overlander]

Yes, Arch2b.

That is the MAN 5t truck I refer to in my article. It is very poular in Germany and is what most of the pictures of German trucks seem to be.

There is a lot of room in them. My next truck will likely be one of those.

[arch2b]

there is aslo a double rear axle model of the same truck. which do you think would better?

[scuba steve]

hey overlander, nice truck! wish i was dedicated enough... (or if i had the supplies, brains, etc.):rolleyes:

[Overlander]

Scuba Dude,

It doesn't take many brain cells. Your right about dedication, though.

I'ts more true to call it Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

Only treated with copius doses of beer.

-Todd

[Overlander]

Arch2b,
I have seen pictures of the 6x6 MAN 7t trucks. I can only tell you about the pictures I've seen, but it looks like most of the 6x6 out there use the middle axle as the drive axle. The rear one is just an ideler.

Maybe on your second TTTT project?


However, I have also seen actual 6x6 and 8x8:eek: 1/87 trucks. The 8x8 I'm talking about has the first two axles driving AND steering!

Here are a few pics of multi drive axles.....

[Overlander]

This thing is awesome....

[Overlander]

Both of the rear axels drive, and articulate:eek:

I hope my next truck will be as nice as these German modelers can do.....

[Overlander]

I am truly not worthy.......

[Overlander]

Just amazing....
Remeber, those tires are only 8mm diameter.

[verbalkint]

Overlander

I am very interested in trying to build something of this nature and I clicked in your profile to email you but it said you don't accept, and would LOVE to get in contact with you with some questions and for some guidance on the servo/speed controller..

How can I get in touch with you via email?

[Thorsten]

Hello Overlander,
your instruction is realy very good. In germany it's like a sickness to build the 1/87 cars.

My english pages of www.mikromodell.de are still under construction, but I try to translate my pages from german language to english. Maybee one day there is also a instruction availible.

It's realy dont't nessesary to build a brass driveline, but it's nice to have one. So you can better fix the frontaxle and the gearbox on a robust frame.

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[Hicountry]

Hey Overlander, cute baby!

Those trucks look awesome.

I have a third truck to build. It has tandem rear axles. I am going to build the Ford C-cab as a 2wd. The second truck as a 4wd. The third as a 6wd. I just have to finish my NASCAR first.

I am going to school for work for the next month. I'm not at home during the week so it is going to take a while.

Thanks for all the help and info. Now I just need to find a MAN Paris to Dakar truck.

[arch2b]

i would love to get a few of the paris-dakar service trucks. watching them in the rally was very interesting.

[Overlander]

Here is a pic showing the differnce in size between the Unimog and the MAN 5 ton. The MAN has about twicw as much room as the Unimog and will be the perfect truck for someone to build first.

[binaryterror]

Where can you get the bodies to begin with?

[arch2b]

where did you get your truck, roco minitank? i can't seem to find any at my lhs's.

[Overlander]

If you can't or dont want build your own front axle, find a "Faller Car System" vehical by a German company called Faller.

These little HO scale cars have a steering front axle that is perfect for a beginners to make an off road truck out of.

See a later post below for the link........




Binary Terror,
Bodies can be found at most HO train stores. Ask for manufacturers like:

Roco
Wiking
Faller
Etc.

[Overlander]

Go here for just about ANY body made for HO:

http://www.reynaulds.com/

Remeber, this stuff will only fit in trucks with cargo beds....

[Overlander]

The Faller Car System vehicals have many of the parts you need to build your first TTTT.

A steerable front axle
A 6mm diameter motor
Worm gear set
On/Off switch

Here is a link to learn more:
http://www.reynaulds.com/faller/car_system.html

The gear ratio is vey high so they are better for street driving than for off road trials. But you can add gears to increase the ratio.

They are NOT remote control!:(

[arch2b]

they charge what looks liek a flat $8.00 sh, ouch.:eek:

discount trains online has a flat $6.95 sh. still high but better than $8.
discount trains online (http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/HO-Scale-Vehicles-Boats-and-Planes-Roco/HO_VEC_625_8.html)

i would suggest looking at lhs's first. i already did with no luck:mad:

you could do a group buy maybe.

[Canadian Bit]

So what does the Faller Car System do? But, please I would pay anything for on of the but with a 1/87 scale Hummer.

[Overlander]

If you follow the link you would see what the faller car system does.

Quote from the link:

The Faller Car System is the name for a fascinating technical innovation for modellers! The integral motor drives the vehicle along, powered by rechargeable batteries, while a steerable front axle guides the vehicles through the streets, using a specially strong magnet mounted on a triple steering link on the front axle, to actually steer the vehicles along the roads.

[Canadian Bit]

Oh I didn't read that part correctly. Can you fit one of these devices in a 1/87 Hummer?

[arch2b]

...and who would like to try your hand at it yourself, i have found a good place to get the roco minitanks. the online stores tend to have high sh charges so i looked further. i found a nice person on ebay who sells these little trucks;
48vw or Rudolf Zerr @ rzerr@dccnet.com
he has a large stock, much more reasonable sh charges and has promply replied to several emails. i will be getting two trucks very soon (one in case i really f things up on the first one) so i can try my hand at making one of these little wonders.

[Overlander]

Canadian Guy,

The front axle from a Faller car will surely fit in a hummer. Unfortunately, getting the rest of the stuff in there is very difficult. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it would be a challege.


arch2b,
Aww, shucks:rolleyes:

Yes, I have purchased from him before on eBay. In fact that is where my orange unimog came from.

It is a good idea to buy a couple for the reason you mentioned.

One of the things that I did not like about that guy was that one of the trucks I bought from him had peices already glued on the truck, and very poorly too! I just chalked it up as eBay "Buyer Beware" and used it for parts.

If you order something from him, make sure you ask if it is NIB!

-Todd

[arch2b]

thanks for the warning, i will be sure to do so.

i can't tell from the pictures, do they come with rubber or plastic wheels? yours appear to be rubber.

also can you give a detailed list of the electronics you used. i need to start hunting and saving!

[Overlander]

arch2b,

Most of the modern Roco trucks have rubber tires.. There are different sizes and tread patterns which is why I bought several. I took tires off of one to put on the other etc.

Which model did you order? I can tell you what tires are on it.


I listed a detailed parts list on the orriginal post on this thread. If that is not enough, let me know specifically what you need. Everything I got from the LHS except the gearbox.

-Todd

[arch2b]

i will be ordering 2 ROCO MINITANKS GERMANY MAN N4510 4X4 and one ROCO MINITANKS GERMANY MAN N4520 6x6.

i'll go back and read it again, sorry for forgetting it was there. i will be getting under way in early feb. there is only one train/hobby shop nearby and a few rc/hobby shops. last time i was in any of them, i don't remember seeing any of the materials needed. i might have to drive to a couple of shops in springfield about 20-30 min's away. this cann only be done on the weekends as i don't get home from work till about 8pm. not to mention i have to ask the wife to watch the litle monster while i go driving around, i dare not take him into a shop with small, breakable things.

[Overlander]

arch2b

Monster?
This is why they make strollers and duct tape.


The MAN trucks come with what is called a military tread. They come in two sizes; 12mm and 15mm. The MAN trucks have the 15mm tires.

They are rubber, but not really off road treads.


This is a pic of the 12mm military tread tires. The off road tire pic will follow:

[Overlander]

This is a pic of the 15MM off road tread tires:

[arch2b]

This is why they make strollers and duct tape.
sometimes i wish i could get away with that.

what models have the 15mm off-road tires?

[Overlander]

arch2b,

Thats not an easy answer. For example: some of the UNIMOGs have them, but most don't. :confused:

All I can suggest is that you look at the online catalogs from
http://reynaulds.com/
and
http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/

and look closely at the pictures, now that you know what the different treads look like.

Another example:
This one (see pic) Roco#554 has off road tires. LOOK CAREFULLY

[Overlander]

Go figure.....
They look the like the same truck, but Roco# 569 (see Pic)
does not have the off road tires. LOOK CAREFULLY

[Canadian Bit]

Yes! Now that that Faller Car System can fit in a 1/87 scale Hummer I can get one or another 1/87 scale S.U.V at my local train store and the system and start work!

[Thorsten]

Hi,
You searching rubber tyres,...?

Roco offer a "spare parts set" with different rubber tyes and wheels.

Herpa also offer a set with rubber tyres and wheels. This set I am using in my unimog.

Some "onroad" rubber tyres you can get by Faller,Trident ore Brekina.



best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[Canadian Bit]

Thorsten: Is it possible to fit all the RC electronics into a 1/87 Herpa Porsche Cayenne S model with a trailer or a noname 1/87 scale Hummer with a trailer?

[binaryterror]

The faller system isn't radio controlled, and fitting the rest of the needed RC gear in the tiny hummer might be super tricky, especially for a first timer. I am having a hard time with a truck 2 times the length!

[Canadian Bit]

Never mind. Sorry for such a late reply, I went to my local model railroad store to buy a 1/87 scale truck, but ended up getting a 1/87 scale Herpa Audi Cabrio and for the last 40 minutes I was putting in those darn mirrors with a tweaser, I almost lost on of the mirrors at one time but found it. Next time I pass by the store I'll get one of their 1/87 scale trucks, because I found this huge International that would be perfect for the job.

[Thorsten]

Hi Canadian Bit,
i think everythink is possible yet. OK, you have to create some new eletric circiuts for the reciver and controler for some challenges.
Its all only a question of time and some money.

A friend of mine has build a small german police car. I think it's the half sice of a porsche. And it works without a trailer.
He create a IR-transmitter and reciver, the speedcontroler and the servo is selfmade by using Atmel-microcontroler and very small motors from www.mikroantriebe.de.



Ok this guy is a little bit genius. I am unable to do so.

I only have build a little tractor (you will find a photo in this threat a little above). Here I use a trailer to put the whole electric in. The servo in the trailer is moving by a braid the frontaxle of the tractor. A motor in the trailer powered by a balance shaft the rearaxle of the tractor.

Some photos of my tractor you will find at
http://www.h0-rc-modellbau.de/


best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[Canadian Bit]

Thorsten: It doesn't really matter what size it is as long as it is 1/87 scale for me. I'll probably start with an International truck without a trailer and then do a Hummer with a trailer, because I've never made a 1/87 scale rc car.

[Thorsten]

Hi,
to start with a 1/87 Truck, it a very good idea to use a 2-axle truck like the ROCO-MAN. Only powered the rear axle and steering the front axle.

Overlander has a very good intruction to do so.

So you have a good working truck in a short time. Maybee you second truck is a smaller one with a long time to build.


best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[Canadian Bit]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking about doing. The International I saw was the biggest 1/87 scale vehicle I've ever seen. It will probably be easy to convert that into an RC car, except getting the parts will be a challenge.

[killer]

:ö: Thorsten,
what are the other sources of a good gearcase? i'm having difficulty in making my own gearcase, model trains is not that popular here and local Hobby Shop don't stock them as well, thanks man! -æ

[Thorsten]

Hi,
there are different sources for gears.

I catch the demage toys of my son. Sometimes there are very intersting gears inside.
Old watches also a wonderfull "gearsource".
Some cameras have also interesting parts.

To get a small motor dissasemble a photocamera or a cellphone (the vibration alert is using a fine motor, also the winder of a camera).

Servos also use fine gears.

Some electronic stores have a own repair service. Just ask here to have a look in their box with the finaly demage parts.

But only disasemble the demage parts. To disassemble the new camera or cellphone of your sweethart maybee a mistake ;-)))

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[killer]

:ö: thanks thorsten,
i was able to lower the gear ratio of my truck last night, i got more than enough torque to climb fingers! :) , this things are so cool!!!! :cool:, three thumbs up for you sir, YOU'RE THE MAN!!! :cool:

one more thing Thorsten, this is quite a long story but here goes; i'am using a GWS micro RX rated 4-6 volts and a Pico standard 5.4grams servo rated 4-6volts, and my ESC or automatic speed controller is a modified Pico PC-9 servo electronic board rated at 4-6volts, early this morning i charge my 4pcs 50MaH battery, that should be 4.6 volts right?, then i plug it to my truck (which i've already done before, when i test all the electronics before installing it on the truck) to my surprise there's a smoke coming out of the servo!!! :eek:, i immediately remove d the battery and i thought it was a short circuit, so i open the servo to inspect for some loose wires, but there was none :confused:, the only burned thing was a tiny black chip near where the positive wire of the servo is soldered, i attached the battery, again, and this chip emits some smoke and almost turned red hot :eek:, have you encountered the same thing before?, what modification have you done on your servo to deal with this situation?. thanks man! -æ

[Overlander]

Killer,
I know you know what you are doing, because I have seen pictures of your other projects.

I am just guessing, But is sounds to me that you have connected the + and - backwards on that servo.

I actually cooked a reciever that way when I was re-soldering the connections. A rookie mistake, but it happens.

-Todd

[Overlander]

Killer,

It is also possible that some of your solder has spread onto another part next to your connection and caused a short.

My soldering iron is too big for this kind of work. Sometimes, when I solder on the small boards, I take a powerfull loupe (a magnifying glass that jewlers use) to look at the mess I just made on the small board. Sometimes I can see how the solder flowed onto the part next to it. I just take an xacto knife and scrape a little line between the components that are touched by the over flowed solder.

Also,
little flakes of brass shavings or wire pieces that you generate as you are building your truck can "contaminate" the small circuit board. Make sure you inspect with a magnifying glass and blow the board off with electronics cleaner, or compressed air before you power it up.

Also,
I had a servo-speed control just stop working. It did not smoke or explode, it just stopped. I suspect it touched the brass frame and short circuited, because I had it stuffed under the bonnet of the UNIMOG.

-Todd

[Overlander]

1. You will accidentally burn your fingers with the soldering iron.

2. You will accidentally touch part of your Roco plastic body with the soldering iron and melt it beyong recognition.

3. You will drop incredibly small parts, that took you a lot of time to make, onto the floor.

4. You will spend a lot of time on your hands and knees searching for the incredibly small parts that took you a lot of time to make.

5. You will not find the part you droped and you will make another one.

6. You will bump your head on the workbench as you get up from searching for the incredibly small part that you did not find.

7. You will ask yourself, "why am I doing this?" then you will look at Thorsten's webpage and remember why http://www.mikromodell.de/.

[killer]

Originally posted by Overlander
1. You will accidentally burn your fingers with the soldering iron.

:ö: lesson learned the hard way!, i am now trying to learn how to use a tweezer when soldering small items!


2. You will accidentally touch part of your Roco plastic body with the soldering iron and melt it beyong recognition.

:ö:been there! LOL!!!

3. You will drop incredibly small parts, that took you a lot of time to make, onto the floor.

:ö:sometimes i brought snacks.

4. You will spend a lot of time on your hands and knees searching for the incredibly small parts that took you a lot of time to make.

:ö: hahaha, my wife just add a wax on the floor and i'll take care of the polishing!!!, but one time she made me a white cloth, i thought it was for my hands and knees!, but the cloth attached to both end of the workbench that catches those tiny things that rolls down the table! believe me.. this will make your life easier! :cool:

5. You will not find the part you droped and you will make another one.

:ö:hahahaha :p i thought it was just me!

6. You will bump your head on the workbench as you get up from searching for the incredibly small part that you did not find.

:ö: always have a Hardhat and a Bedpad ready underneath that work bench!

7. You will ask yourself, "why am I doing this?" then you will look at Thorsten's webpage and remember why
http://www.mikromodell.de/.

:ö: can you change the title to.. The Do's and Dont's when building a 1/87 micro truck!!! LOL!

[dabigpig]

5. You will not find the part you droped and you will make another one.
THEN after 3 hours or remaking it you will find the part you droped on the floor the first time.:mad:

[killer]

Originally posted by Overlander
Killer,
I know you know what you are doing, because I have seen pictures of your other projects.

I am just guessing, But is sounds to me that you have connected the + and - backwards on that servo.

I actually cooked a reciever that way when I was re-soldering the connections. A rookie mistake, but it happens.

-Todd

:ö: thanks Todd,

yup!, it's just that i'm not familiar using rc plane electronics! ;), then realised that the whole thing works the same! duh! :p

-æ

[killer]

Originally posted by Overlander
Killer,
I know you know what you are doing, because I have seen pictures of your other projects.

I am just guessing, But is sounds to me that you have connected the + and - backwards on that servo.

I actually cooked a reciever that way when I was re-soldering the connections. A rookie mistake, but it happens.

-Todd

:ö: thanks Todd,

Yup!, it's just that i'm not familiar with rc plane electronics, but then i realised, they work just the same! duh?! :D

:p -æ

[killer]

Originally posted by dabigpig
THEN after 3 hours or remaking it you will find the part you droped on the floor the first time.:mad:

:ö: LOL!!! i hate when those things happen!!! :p -æ

[JTM]

is somethign like this suitable for a project like this?? im thinking with a regular chassis (would look lifted) its HO scale (not sure how big that is i know its small tho)

[killer]

:ö: JTM,
first you have to consider the size of your car, why?.. first, the smallest RX (reciever) i know is made by GWS, that is also available on your LHS, check this website too for more info. http://www.gws.com.tw/english/english.htm[/url] , they also have the 5.4grams servo, you need to steer that thing, now if the 5.4grams servo is still big, try looking at http://www.mikroantriab.de they have the smallest servo i have seen that would suit your need, with some gears and motors too, the smaller the better, but if it is your first time to build a small scale like this, may i suggest for you to begin with a truck model first, co'z it has bigger space at the back of the truck, where in you could install all the electronics without doing any major surgery on your electronics! ;) -æ

[Thorsten]

Hi JTM,
I think it is possible to rebuild the car. But it may be difficult to use industrial rc-components.
If you use a selfmade IR-remote control and a microcontroler powered servo with step-motor this car is large enough. As the battery will be a cell-phone "LIPO"-battery the best choice. I use such a battery in my small 1/87 tractor. It works fine.

You can also use a Trailor to hide the "normal" electronic. But I think this kind of car don``t has been seen with trailor ;-)

If this is your first project in 1/87 so it`s better to start with a larger truck. So you have time to learn how to build small cars. And you will have a lucky feeling with your first car building in a short time. Later you can spend a lot of time in this project. And it will take some time to realize the remotecontrol and other challenges of this project.

Look at http://www.micmo.de to see a very small "Smart"-car and my tractor.
At http://www.mikromodell.de you will find some other small cars and maybee an Idea to realize your project.


best regards

Thorsten


www.mikromodell.de

[JTM]

i wish someone made a kit with all required to build such a device. those mini trucks look coolio, esp those nifty frames and supsension. im afraid id get half way done, lose track of parts get frustred to return to the hobby store and throw it all away.

[Thorsten]

Hi,
Thats why you should start with a "normal" 2-axle truck. Such a truck can be build in a short time with "normal" availible components.
And in the case of problems, just mail here and catch the helping hand ;-)

dont't worry just try out

There is a "driveline-kit" availible in germany. But I think it's easier to build your own driveline.
The easiest way to get your 1/87 rc-truck is to modify a "Faller-Car-System" truck. This one have allready a motor, a gear, the steering frontaxle and a mainswitch.
You only need a transmitter, reciver, servo, speedcontroler and a battery.

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[JTM]

whats a thorsten faller car run approx.? (price wise) and should they be avail. anywhere? also i have a radio for 1/10 scale cars already.. would i be able to use that as my Tx? and just buy a mini reciever/servo? if so where would i get this stuff (from a reliabel source) if i am given name brands or model numbers i imagine i can find it on ebay.
http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/Faller-TractorTrailer-Man-Lorry-F90/item272-1021.html something like this??

[Thorsten]

Hi JTM,
above in this threat was a link to a shop who sells faller cars:

http://www.reynaulds.com/faller/car_system.html

Sorry I am from germany and I don't know whats availible in the U.S.A.

In germany this Faller Cars starter set costs nearly 50 Euros (=50 USD). It's cheaper to buy a complete Faller starter set with a road, wire, glue, colour and so on. The cars himself are nearly 65 Euros.

I have rebuild the Faller Car from the starter set 161631. It's a yellow bus. Try this link:

http://www.reynaulds.com/faller/fal161631.asp

A very good choice may be this one:

http://www.reynaulds.com/faller/fal161633.asp

Only the price is a little high. Maybee in the U.S. you will find another offer.

The rc-components should be smaller than in 1/10 cars. Mostly the companys sale "micro-reciver" and "micro-servo". Just have a look in a 1/87 car and so you will know whats should be small enough.

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[arch2b]

this may be a dumb question but if i were to use the faller truck for steering, motor, on/off switch, battery, gears will it be able to go in reverse? also would this motor be strong enough or have enough torque? what is the speed like, compared to bit's, moicrosizers etc.?

[Thorsten]

Hi Arch,
I don't know any "dump question". There is always a good reason for you to ask.
To go reverse, you use the speedcontroler. The gear and the motor don't have any problems to do so.

The motor are realy strong enough to push the car. My yellow bus is able to push a 0.33ml tin of coke (a full one!!!) on a trailer over the railway layout. Just have a look here:

http://home.t-online.de/home/tfeuchter/berlin02.html

Ok, here you see 2 heavy trucks and a 0.5l tin of beer.

The speed is adjustible by the transmitter. It is a proportional speedcontroler (the rebuild servocontroler is also proportional). So you can drive very slowly (10cm per minute) up to "microsicer-speed". Sometimes also faster than the microsizers.

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[arch2b]

i think i am going to take your advice and start with faller components for my man 4x4.
i went to gws website and it is a little overwhelming for someone who doesn't know anything about rc components. as you stated, all i would need is the servo, reciever, speed controler and transmitter. gws has all these things. my question is would it be easier to get all these things from them. if so, can someone give me suggestions as to what combination of components will work well?

like jtm, i have the prefex tx for my kyosho mini z. is it possible to use this instead of paying for a new tx? i would prefer this style of controller over the joystick style.

oh, thorsten- the link for gws takes me to the wrong site.
correct link www.gws.com.tw

[Thorsten]

Hi,
I dont know anything about the allowed frequency and modulation in the U.S.A. so please select the frequency on your choice.
But I can tell you something about the parts, you can use.

Lets start with the reciver:
GWS R-4P is ok. In germany this one called "Graupner xp8" or "jst-mini". It is the best choice i know. The letter "H" or "T" is the plug. This is on your choice, I use mostly the "T" type and unmount the plugs.
http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/receiver/r4p.htm

Servo:
Here I use the GWS Pico. In germany known as "Graupner C141 "or "mikroantriebe pico".
Its not nessesary to use a high quality servo. The cheapest one is the best for microtrucks. So take your choise by asking your amount ;-)
Important is only the weight and the sice. So I would catch the 5.4 gramm Servo.
http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/servo/sub%20micro.htm

Speedcontroler:
Nothing comercial is nessesary. It is easy to rebuild an old servocontroler or buy a servocontroler-kit in a electronicstore. An electric circuit of a servocontroler based speedcontroler you will find at
http://home.t-online.de/home/tfeuchter/Tipps/frsmd4_e.html

battery:
Ok, I found on the GWS pages an usefull one, but still not the best . The GWS one called 50AAA. You need this 4 times for 4.8 V
http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/battery/battery.htm

The best one is the GP12AAAM and I found a datasheet here:
http://www.gpbatteries.com/industrial/batteries/NiMH/NiMHspecs.htm
It is nearly the same sice than the GWS and more than double capacity. But I dont know where in the U.S.A. You can catch them.

Motor:
I think you can use here any old servo motor (maybe you recycle the rest of the servo you need to get a speedcontroler). On GWS I found the "CN12-B2". This one should be fine:
http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/motor/motor.htm

Transmitter:
This is on your choice again. Just select one, that is compatibel with the reciver you get ;-)))
I saw the GW/4TA and this one may be fine.

http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/system/system.htm

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[arch2b]

throsten,
i can't thank you enough. that is the exact information i was looking for. thanks. after i complete this one, i will try doing more of this on my own. right now my skills are good for 1:25 scale work. i'm going to need more practice for 1:87 scale work.

my brush guard and roof rack on kyosho overland 1:25 scale.
http://mini-zracer.com/albums/album58/mz141.sized.jpg

[Overlander]

Yo arch,

I have to admit that you are really the one that started this thread. After you sent me that link to one of the German TTTT sites, I have been obsessed with the little things and that is what prompted me to write the "How To" article at the beginning of this thread.

So now that you got me hooked, you better build one!!! :D

Anyway,

My work forces me to travel for days and sometimes weeks at a time. Forgive me if I suddenly drop off and you dont hear from me for a while. It is sometimes hard to get a decent internet connection in a hotel room.

Besides, Thorsten is now active in this thread and he is, after all, the person who helped me actually build my first TTTT by giving me guidence and encuragment.

It started when I emailed Thorsten to tell him how amazing his work was. His email reply said, "It's easy. Just do it." So I did!

I am glad there is a group of people that are willing to help each other out so this TTTT hobby can grow around the world.

-Todd

[Overlander]

As far as radios are concerned......

As I mentioend in the how 2 article, there are no known manufacturers that make receivers on the U.S. "ground" frequencies that are small enough work for TTTT.

If you notice on this page:
http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/receiver/rx%20crystal.htm
The GWS crystals available in the U.S. (leagally, that is) are all 72MHZ for airplanes only.

Your Kyosho radio is 27MHZ made by Futaba. This is important because you must get the right crystal for your transmitter. They usually come from: Futaba, JR, HiTec, and Sanwa. You also need to use FM frequencies. I think the Kyosho radios are AM.

Here is a chart to confuse you:
http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/receiver/crystal%20comparison%20chart.htm

If we could somehow import or find a Japanese company to buy from, we could get the GWS 27MHZ crytals that are made for Japanese markets but still ONLY AIRCRAFT (see link above), but it still would not work in your Kyosho radio if it is AM.

Believe me, I have about 30 different radio transmitters laying around. If there was a way I could avoid buying another one, I would. If ANYONE knows a way around this PLEASE LET US KNOW!!!

The short answer is: In the U.S. you must buy an FM transmitter on 72MHZ and then buy the GWS receiver and crystal. Make sure the crystal matches the brand of transmitter you will be using.


-Todd

[Overlander]

Hey everybody,

I started a thread for discussion of how to construct a miniature off road course (parcourse?) Please go to this link and add helpfull feedback on how to make a place to drive the little trucks!
http://tinyrc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7696

[Dux]

The Novak XXL comes in an AM and FM flavor for all major brands of radio. They are the smallest land recievers I can think of. One can find them on ebay very often.

[killer]

:ö:hey Arch,
yes you can use your Kyosho Perfex Radio!..
before buying anything for your 1/87 check out one of the thread i posted at Mini-Zracer.com.. here's how..

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5526


my first try on 1/87 scale truck (prototype) using Kyosho Mini-Z electronics

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5603&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

ei, don't laugh man :D i know, it's ugly! :p, this was my first try on making my own 1/87 truck.. and this were the parts available on my workbench during that time. :) hopefully, by next week i'll be posting my finished real rc 1/87 truck!.

about reciever as i understand it, there are some company that make tiny AM reciever (i think it is "Hitec") but i'll try to do some more research for you man, now if you plan to buy a reciver like GWS or any airplane reciever, which is very tempting co'z their size really fits this kinds of project, now, make sure you look for AM frequenzy, Kyosho Mini-Z radio transmitt AM signal only, so you'll be needing an AM reciever to decode the signal, and as far as i know, most of the rc plane reciever are FM frequenzy because FM are not prone to glitching problem w/c AM recievers are prone to, hope this help man. ;) -æ

[Dux]

AM is fine for these kinds of vehicles. Just find the smallest you can!!

[Overlander]

Dux,

You are correct about the Novak being small. HiTec actually makes a smaller one.

But they are still not even close to being small enough for 1/87 scale trucks.

-Todd

[Overlander]

Hey Killer,

I saw that trick you did with the large crystal on minizracer.

I was going to try it, but we can't get the GWS receivers in 27MHZ here in the U.S.:mad:

Maybe you can smuggle them in for us:D ?

-Todd

[killer]

Originally posted by Dux
AM is fine for these kinds of vehicles. Just find the smallest you can!!

:ö: the problem is, if you can find one small enough to fit at the back of a 1/87 scale truck, and have more space for a servo, battery & ESC and motor to fit too :( , though some parts can be placed at the front of the the truck (inside the cowl) .-æ

[JTM]

i cant imagine why someone couldnt mail some small am 27mhz stuff here, i doubt custmos would know what it was, i dont even think it would be illegal.. kinda like chipped able boxes, aint illegal to own or have or sell or make, just use.

[killer]

Originally posted by Overlander
Hey Killer,

I saw that trick you did with the large crystal on minizracer.

I was going to try it, but we can't get the GWS receivers in 27MHZ here in the U.S.:mad:

Maybe you can smuggle them in for us:D ?

-Todd

:ö: it's the same mod i made on my GWS rx so i can use my BIG rc car crystal :p, not enough dough to buy a small crystal for now :(,
smuggle?! hhhmmmm??? (thinking) i guess one is not bad, yes i can thru snail mail if you want one?.

-æ

[JTM]

so the GWS recievers would work with a regular ground AM transmitter? like the kind i use with my team associated rc10 gt?

[killer]

Originally posted by JTM
so the GWS recievers would work with a regular ground AM transmitter? like the kind i use with my team associated rc10 gt?

:ö:JTM,

it's like this, AM transmitter works with AM reciever, FM transmitter works with FM reciever, now if you try to use your AM transmitter with an FM reciever (like the GWS) it won't work, or vice versa, even if you use the same crystal frequenzy, but one thing i descovered, that your regular ground FM pistol type transmitter will work on FM rc airplane reciever (with FM rc car crystal to match the crystal i have on the transmitter), which i have been using for quite some time now..

to simplify everything:
*tx = transmitter
*rx = reciever
*AM= frequenzy
*FM= frequenzy
* :) = good
* :eek: = not advisable!!!

AM tx + AM rx= :)
FM tx + FM rx= :)

FM tx + AM rx = :eek:
AM tx + FM rx = :eek:
this combination will not work even if you use the same crystal frequency either FM or AMcrystal.


*modified version*

FM rc car tx + FM rc airplane rx = :)

¤ make sure that you have the same crystal frequency for this combination to work, if you can't find the right crystal, you can do this modification so you can use your 1/10 rc car crystal, co'z rc car crystal is too big for the airplanes rx crystal slot, here's how; solder a piece of wire on the crystals leg and solderi the other end of the wire on the crystal slot.

-æ

[arch2b]

overlander
yes i promise i will finish mine as quickly as i can. it will take a while as i can't afford to get all the parts at one time. i'm starting with the roco's and faller and brass work. i'll move on to the electronics after that.

killer
thanks for the info. i have read your thread before but forgot about it. i don't have a mini z pcb to spare and the are expensive. very cool idea and very impressive that you got it to work.

i am just catching up on the last few posts as i spent nearly 2 hours reassembling the servo pod for my overland. i was putting in my alloy knuckles and s.s. king pins and mistakenly opened the servo pod only to have two small parts fall out and are extremely hard to get back in without taking the whole front end apart. what a mess.

[arch2b]

killer,
can you get micro narrow band am recievers to ship to us in the states? i have several crystal sets for my mini z's i could use, with the mod you described.

[Overlander]

arch2b,
Yikes:eek: That will be good training for a TTTT:) No need to promise though, you have kids too :p


JTM and Killer,

The root of the Rx vs. Tx issue is thatWE CAN NOT GET 27MHZ GWS RECEIVERS IN THE U.S.!!


Killer has offered to be a smuggler. I'm in.

-Todd

[JTM]

i will need this to use my futuba transmitter? then im in too.. just let me know what i need, i wanna build one of these bad boys

[arch2b]

if killer can do this, i'm in also.:D :D

[Overlander]

Everyone should check out Thorstens page at http://www.mikromodell.de/index_e.html.

He has done a lot of work and translated the HO Truck section into English.

The truck models he shows are all increidible and are very insperational.

-Todd

[arch2b]

i have spent countless hours browsing the german ttt sites including thorsten's:D
i had stumbled into bit's and moded them as much as i could. i got into my mini z for a while and forgot about my bit's. :( then i got my overland and started talking to my new friend overlander:D and remembered thorsten's and other sites for the ttt's. that's how, as overlander said, this thread began.

i got some prices for those who are new to the thead or just curious as to what costs are involved. these are approximates and not exact.
faller car system starter set - $50
roco miinitanks 470 man 4x4 - $8
gwsr-4pt reciever - $22
gws pico servo - $20
batteries - $2-5 each (has anyone priced an assembled 4pack)
gwt-4a transmitter - $30
gws cn12-b2 motor - can't find price. would the motor from the faller car work?
add cost of brass parts - screws, nuts and washers are expensive.
add cost of soldering supplies - rather cheap
add cost of burns, cuts, cursing in frustration, wife complaining your spending to much time on it, you little kids trying to use you as a jungle gym as your trying to assemble a size 80 brass screw-nut and washer and other trials and tribulation.

all you have to do is look at overlander's, killer's and thorsten's work to know it's worth it.:D

[killer]

Originally posted by Overlander
arch2b,
Yikes:eek: That will be good training for a TTTT:) No need to promise though, you have kids too :p


JTM and Killer,

The root of the Rx vs. Tx issue is thatWE CAN NOT GET 27MHZ GWS RECEIVERS IN THE U.S.!!


Killer has offered to be a smuggler. I'm in.

-Todd

:ö: ssshhh.. not too loud! :D, just curious, why is it illegal for you to use such frequenzy on country?.

guys, i'll be needing your suggestion on how i can send your 27MHZ GWS reciever to you, the 27MHZ "crystals" are easier to send thru regular mail.

ei, if you have a friend here or will be visiting here in the Philippines ask him to visit me here at Pan Pacific Hotel Manila, i work there.
send me an e-mail first at killer_d76@digitelone.com


Arch,
yup! you can do it!, this little things are sooo cool!!!.. GO FOR IT!!!!
right now... i'm obsesed with this trucks! :p thanks to Thorsten!

JTM,
yes, you can use your Futaba FMtx on a 1/87 rc with GWS FM rx, i am using a Futaba 3PDF 3channel pistol type transmitter on my 1/87 with a GWS rx, which is the same "tx" i used on my 1/10 TamiyaTB-01 evo VI rally car..

-æ

[JTM]

i have a hitec AM transmitter, so i need a set of crystals and then a micro reciever and micro servos... how much is it for s set of crystals i can use in this Tx (and it would also come with one for the Rx right?) also i need a reciever right? what kind should i get (cheap) and you think you could send me one with the set of crystals, check how much it would be for post to 93705.. that would rock so much.

[Overlander]

i'm obsesed with this trucks! thanks to Thorsten!


Golly, what about me...:( :D


It is not leagle because the FCC (Federal Communications Corperation) has designated all RC models to be used on ground or water to be on 27MHZ or 75MHZ, and all RC models to be used in the air to be on 72MHZ.

I think the frequencies were getting so crowded that some boat modelers radios were interfering with airplane modelers radios and causing them to crash into people, causing serious injury. So they separated the frequencies

[arch2b]

killer
you've got mail

jtm
i've priced some stuff above.

[killer]

Originally posted by JTM
i have a hitec AM transmitter, so i need a set of crystals and then a micro reciever and micro servos... how much is it for s set of crystals i can use in this Tx (and it would also come with one for the Rx right?) also i need a reciever right? what kind should i get (cheap) and you think you could send me one with the set of crystals, check how much it would be for post to 93705.. that would rock so much.

:ö: JTM,
You have a HiTec AM transmitter that you use on your 1/10 rc kit right?, then you already have a fair of crystals!(one on your transmitter and the other one is in your car rx).. there's no need to buy a new set of crystals (if you need a spare then there's a need), all you need now is a Micro RX, 2pcs. Micro Servo (you'll be needing only two for the truck, one for steering and one will be modified to be used as your speed controller).. rule no.1 for this project truck," the smaller the better!".
-æ

[Silentbob343]

Could you use a bit motor? I have an abundance of thoese laying around.

4-Channel GWS Naro Receiver (JR) GWR4NH72J 1 $21.95

GWS Pico BB Servo (JR) GWSPICBBJ 1 $21.95

Crystal for GWS Pico and Naro Receivers ( For both JR and Futaba 72 MHz Band) GWX1R72XXX Channel: 11 1 $7.45

GWS ICS-50E ESC (JR) GWICS50EJ 1 $14.75

Total: $66.10

Arch where did you find the Tx for so cheap? I found a place that was selling one for 34 but it didn't ask what channel I wanted. And did you make your own speed controller? if so from where did you get the parts for it?

and curse you people for getting me interested

[arch2b]

s.bob
i rounded my figures but they are about the same as yours.
i found a lot of the gws stuff @ balsa producrs (http://www.balsapr.com)

if you have found a good place to get these parts post a link.

has anyone tried using a pillow ball joint for the rear axle? similar to the overland but in reverse. it would allow movement without a stationary pivot point to get in the way of the gearing at the axle. just need small springs, similar to what qfm sells as suspension upgrade spings. anyone know where to get i tiny pillow ball screw and socket peice? i know i've seen this done on a german site, so it can be done.

[Silentbob343]

oops sorrry about not including the link :D

http://www.aeromicro.com/Catalog/index.htm

[arch2b]

i found a battery pack @ batteriesamerica (www.batteriesamerica.com)
ap-nimh
ap-150aaah
150 mah 1/3aaa
4.8v w/ leads____$13

connectors installed (futaba/jr-hitec/airtronics)__$3

the charger, udq-9000 universal charger/conditioner____$50
thats a little steep.

thorsten/overlander/killer- how do you charge your batteries? or do you just buy a lot and replace them when they die.

as you can guess, i'm trying to put together an inventory sheet with parts and prices. i'm trying to get as much as i can from one place to save on shipping. this will help me plan out my project as it will have to be done on the weekends (i'm planning for the month of febuary).

another question-
how do you modify the second servo electronics to make the speed controller?

[JTM]

i apporiximate this project being anywhere from 110 to 200 bucks more if you have to buy a transmitter.

[arch2b]

hopefuly killer can come through and we won't have to buy a transmitter, just an AM reiceiver and crystals.

[Overlander]

I just published a How To on building a speed control from a servo.

Go here to check it out!
http://tinyrc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7752

-Todd

[Silentbob343]

Thanks over

[arch2b]

once again, great directions! thanks.

another question-
the reciever, batteries, servo and such have choices as to what kind of connectors you would like such as futabab, airtronics or hitec. which do i get and i assume all have to be the same for whichever i choose.

[Overlander]

Receiver Connectors
The connectors on the receiver really dont matter that much because you will have to either cut them off or un-solder them off anyway. To make things fit, every connection has to be soldered directly to the receiver. Understand that there are H (horizontal U.S. type), T (European), and the normal U.S. models of GWS 4P receivers. They all have to be cut off. There may be some cases with large ON ROAD trucks that you have room to leave the connectors on, but, AS A RULE, most OFF ROAD size trucks will need have them removed. THE BLUE ARROW in the picture below points to the connectors actually CUT off.

Servo Connector
It is the same thing for the servos, you must cut off the plugs anyway.

Just remember:

Futaba, JR, and Sanwa servos have negitive (black wire) on the outside, positive (red wire) in the middle, and signal (other color depending on brand) on the other side. This has become the standard even for newly manufactured Hitec and Airtronics servos -

But....
Old model servos from Hitec and Airtronics may still be on the shelves of your LHS and they have the positive and negative reversed, that is; the negative is in the middle.
BE AWARE OF THIS WHEN YOU ARE SOLDERING CONECTIONS ON YOUR RECEIVER! I smoked one and Killer did too.

So, when you buy your receiver....
These are the things to do (assuming you are buying a GWS 4P):

1. Know the brand, frequency, channel, and band(AM or FM) on the Transmitter you will be using.

2. Purchase the proper frquency and band(AM/FM) receiver.

3. Purchase the proper micro crystal that matches the brand, channel, and band(AM/FM) on your Transmitter.

4. Be prepared to burn your fingers with a soldering iron.

Battery Connections
Yes arch2b, I do recharge my batteries. I don't just buy a bunch and change them:p .

Just like any other serious RC sport, you will have to solder your own battery packs. Do not buy a pre-made battery pack because you wont know how they will all fit until you design the truck. For example: A Unimog has two batteries in the drivers cab and two in the cargo bed. Remember the 2 major rules of design: First the drive train, then the steering. The batteries have to fit around those systems, not the other way around.

Batteries will need some sort of plugs, because you cant solder them directly to the receiver (duh):rolleyes:. I use a set of micro 2 pin plugs like Deans connectors, only smaller. You might have room for Deans connectors if you have kept everything else small.

I find most of the parts and materials and tools at the model train store. The RED ARROW in the picture below points to the micro plugs whith a white dot on each one so I dont plug them in backwords. Buy two sets so you can use the other to make a connector to your battery charger.

On-Off Switch
The simplest way to have an on/off switch is just to build the model with the battery connectors easy to reach. Just unplug them to turn it off!

I found a use for some of the parts that come in the Faller Car System cars. THE GREEN ARROW points to a tiny magnetic reed switch. I mounted it on top, and I mounted a teenie tiny magnet under the canvas cover for the cargo bed. To turn on my truck, I just put the cover on and the magnet closes the reed switch. Perfect for small trucks like the UNIMOG where space is very limited. The little switch and magnet came from a Faller Car.

-Todd

[Overlander]

I asked Thorsten how to charg the small 120mAh cells a few weeks ago.

This was his reply:

To charge the batterys I use a normal charger. You can charge up to 200 mA. But it's better to charge 12 mA in 10 hours or 25 mA in 5 hours. If you have an automaic-charger, this should be working too. In the first time its better to watch at the battery while charging. If they don't became hot and the charger say automaticly "I am finished" in the correct time, so it will working.
Some easy automatic charger will don't work with the small batterys like this one. Thats why you have to look and try out at the first time.

All of my chargers are made for peaking 3000 and 2400 racing packs for my fast electric race boats (an entirely different obsession of mine). One of the older ones, made by Ace (before they were bought by a Chineese company) is adjustable from 0 to 500mAh. It is not automatic, so I have to set my alarm clock.

It is an Ace model H/D500. Find one on eBay if you can.

-Todd

[Overlander]

My next truck project........

[arch2b]

tiny should begin a 1:87 forum here with your instructions permanently displayed. i can't thank you enough for the information.

i can't wait to hear all about your next project. it looks like one of the dakar rally tatra? what brand, where did you find it? i was trying to find a un man but the only one i found was huge, an 8x8. i guess i'll try to paint one. i just wanted something different, the army green man is very common.
your going to attempt double turning axles and double drive axles? you will be the thorsten of the us when you get that done!

so what battery charger do you use? i found one, listed in an earlier post of mine for battery packs but it's rather expensive.

[Thorsten]

Hi Overlander,
the Tatra 813 is a fine toy ;-). 8wheel drive 4 wheel steering. I have this kit in my hobieroom too. But I am unable to build this. Maybee later I try again to rebuild.

Thats why I drive souch a car in August 2002 scaled 1:1.


100% fun, here is a picture of me driving the truck.

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[Overlander]

Wow Thorsten!

Whos Tatra? Yours?

For comparison, here is a picture the Jeep I built. This picture was taken on the Rubicon Trail just West of Lake Tahoe California.

It's not exactly a Tatra, but it will go anywhere..... Someday I will build a 1/87 Jeep Cherokee like mine.

-Todd

[arch2b]

overlander
nice jeep, looks like beautiful country.

i ordered my faller starter set and two 470 man 4x4's. unfortunately it will be almost 2 weeks before i get them, discount trains online has a slow ordering process. the project begins!

killer- any luck?

[Silentbob343]

Can you use Bit motors? Or do you have to use the GWS motor?

I was thinking about making a tank with two motors, one controlling each tread. What would be involved with this? I was thinking about using two RXs but then I would need a Tx for each RX unless the make TXs that can have controls with two channels at once. Would a channel RX and six channels Tx solve this problem?

I know this would be too hard for my first 1/87 so I was thinking doing it first on a larger scale and working my way down to 1/87th. I just need to get controlling two motors independently figured out.

Using two motors on the treads would also neegate the need for a steering servo. Just like in a real tank the speed of the tread would control turning.

[Overlander]

SilentBob,
I can tell you all about how to make a tank. You might even be able to use a toy radio like the bitch arg ones.

Lets have that discussion here:
http://tinyrc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7816

Thorsten is making a 1/87 scale crane with tracks like a tank, maybe he can post some pics here:
http://tinyrc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7816.

Thorsten?

Lets keep this forum for 1/87 scale trucks.

[Overlander]

SilentBob,

Yes you can use bitch arg motors. You can even use the pinion and spur gears that come with it. They will have to be modified of course.

-Todd

[killer]

:ö: sorry about the resolution, it's an old camera :( , but here it is..

[killer]

:ö: side view, with the driver.. on top of Jhonny Walker!!! :D.

[killer]

:ö: uuugghhh.. here's a good example of a dunk dirver!! :p

[arch2b]

killer-
very nice work. you have to tell me how and what leds you used for the lights. very cool. is it anything like a led set for a bit?

any luck with the am rx?

[Overlander]

Killer,
That is my brand of scotch:D !

[killer]

Originally posted by arch2b
killer-
very nice work. you have to tell me how and what leds you used for the lights. very cool. is it anything like a led set for a bit?

any luck with the am rx?

:ö: thanks arch2b,
it's the same leds used as backlights on your mobile phone (nokia..etal) am not sure if it is the same led used on bits, i just bought it from a cellphone repair shop cost me $1.80 for 10pcs...

about the AM rx, the only available micro rx most hobby shop have are all in FM version :( .. but onw of the shop owner told me that they are expectiing for a new batch of stock to arrive within this month, and they will call me as soon as the stocks arrived.

-æ

[killer]

Originally posted by Overlander
Killer,
That is my brand of scotch:D !

:ö: hehehe.. it helps me a lot building this little truck, and also,.. i burned my finger.. melt some parts there... almost lost a good servo after i accidentally installed battery backwards (again! :D ), but hey, they taste sooooo good! cheers! :D -æ

[Silentbob343]

Great job Killer

[Thorsten]

Hi overlander,
sorry, it's not my Tatra. I wish it were mine (until the next tank stop).
Me and a few "mikromodell"-guys wanted to know the feeling to drive 1:1 TruckTrial. And in germany are some guys who offer to learn to do so. So we spend some money and order a "one day TruckTrial lesson"

It was a big fun. One day in a large truck. If you are in a Tatra, there is no hill and no barrier that can stop you:-)

Your Jeep looks also fine. In germany there is no reason for driving an all wheel drive car (exept just for fun). So my car is only an old volkswagen-bus.

best regards

Thorsten

[arch2b]

thorsten-
i saw all the pictures of your 1:1 tatra adenture on the website. it must have been very fun.

[JTM]

it actually looks like that hill ALMOST stopped you :)

[arch2b]

just curious, but i saw this on ebay and wondered if this would work in stead of rigging a servo pcb. it appears to be much smaller.
GWS ESC OR SPEED CONTROL (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3112252514&category=34056)

[Dux]

That'll work, but there's probably no reverse or brake.

[Overlander]

Once all of your parts are gathered, you may stare at the pile and wonder where to start.

It is a good idea to at least sketch out the general arangement, and have a good idea about the relationship between the gearbox, servo, and frame.

I use 3D to model the general arrangement. Here you cn see I am trying two different servo locations for my next truck (my Tatra won't be here for a couple of weeks). After the first one, I learned quite a bit about what I really want (besides a better paint job) and this one will be bullet proof. It will be 2WD but both axles will articulate and be stabilized by springs.
I also want to try to mount the batteries as low as I can and using the 3D to move things around allows me to see how it can be done.

If you have a 3D CAD program, that's great. If not, try to sketch it out with accurate demensions as best as you can. This will eliminate any time consuming re-working.

I use CAD because I am lame with a pencil:rolleyes:

[killer]

:ö: Overlander,

man you sure are lucky, 3D CAD is way too big for my comp, but for those who don't have CAD, they can use the o'l MS EXCEL, just reduce the pixels to 8X8, and use the drawing tools, no mess like the old pencil and paper thing,but..... the CAD is still the best ;)

-æ

[killer]

:ö: i was charging my battery early this morning, while waiting for the battery to charge, i peek on my box and found my pending 1/32 4x4 Monster Truck Project... then i look at my 1/87 rc truck, i think to myself, i lost my interest to finish this one :(, don't blame me a 1/87 truck is soooooo coool!!!.. right now, i'm on my drawing board designing a simple u-joint for my 1/87 to four-wheel drive this addictive little truck, man i am hooked on this things! :D -æ

[JTM]

you ever see the gas tanks on big rigs?? maybe you can mount the batteries somehow like that. one on each side of the frame. i dont know it would lower the center of gravity alot tho. not sure if you could make it look right.

[Thorsten]

Hello Overlander,
very nice drawing!!!

I never use a pencil or a CAD-program to build my trucks.

My way to construct is a kind of "Just in time deployment" ;-)

OK maybe on you way I can reduce my re-working. I will cogitate about it next time.


But allow me one question about your drawing:

Why do you use two servos??? Do you plan a 4 wheel steering like Harry Jacobsen???

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[Overlander]

Thorsten,

I will only use one servo for steering.

My 3D model is just a test to see different possiblities for the servo location.

3D modeling is not necessary, but drawing out a plan first will save a lot of time and frustration.


You can also use the TLAR method of engineering........

TLAR
That Looks About Right.

This is the method I used for my first UNIMOG.:D I think this is what you mean by "Just in time deployment":p

-Todd

[Overlander]

Really I was just showing off..........:p

[JTM]

*laff*
well i guess the 1:87 has to wait. i didnt realise rent was due @ this time. in a few months tho, i will own one...

[Alex]

hmm... seems like everyone noes about this...i remember when i posted a thread about htis on MZR last year...i was really interested in this but its way outa my league...:(

[arch2b]

i am already think about what to do next, i know i shouldn't as i haven't recieved the first order of parts for my first project. the whole thing is addictive.

anyway i was thinking about doing a minature optimus prime as my other hobby is collecting transfromers, the joys of my youth. i found a wiking rig, with some decals and paint, i think it would look good, or is it just me.

[arch2b]

does anyone know where to find the following batteries;
GP 12AAAm, 1/3AAA, 1.2v, nimh, 120mAh, Price: $2.00

i found www.batterystation.com but the shipping for just 4 batteries is the same as the cost of the batteries. i don't want to pay $16 for $8 in batteries.

[Silentbob343]

That's a great idea for an Optimus Prime. I"m currently collecting the Japenese re-releases

[killer]

Originally posted by arch2b
i am already think about what to do next, i know i shouldn't as i haven't recieved the first order of parts for my first project. the whole thing is addictive.

anyway i was thinking about doing a minature optimus prime as my other hobby is collecting transfromers, the joys of my youth. i found a wiking rig, with some decals and paint, i think it would look good, or is it just me.

:ö: arch,
that is a one cool truck!... the rig of the truck has lots of space for your battery and electronics, you can use 4pcs AAA batteries and install everything on the trailer of that truck, something like the "$$$$ keyence 1/87 rc truck $$$$" where all electronic components and batteries are at the trailer of the truck, and only the steering servo and the drive motor are inside the truck, the problem is, you can't use the truck itself without the rig/trailer attached! :( -æ

[killer]

:ö: update:
right now i'm working on my next 1/87 project truck, it's an all-wheel-drive 8 x 8 cargo truck (used to haul big Military Missiles), i just finished the chassis and the rear axles last night, just like those 8 x 8's on Mikromodell, it has articulating rear axles too!, but i have to wait for a week or two for the alluminum tubes to arrive :(.., allum. tubes are easier to convert to a universal joint than brass tubes (IMO), co'z solder lead don't stick to allum.!, this u-joints will be used to drive the front axles and needed on the propeller shaft for the front and rear axles to articulate better!, man my hands are shaking! i can't wait any longer!!!!! :( :p -æ

[killer]

:ö: my next project like exactly looks like this... but with cargo at the back for the electronics...

[killer]

:ö: after a few search on the net, now i know what truck it is!!!! it's an "OshKosh Truck!".. :p -æ

[arch2b]

can't wait to read about it, be sure to post nice instructions, please! looks very, very difficult.

what size brass members do you work with? angles or box tubes? what size screws do you reccomend, i have used size 80 on other projects. are there locknuts or lock washers for these tiny screws? i'm afraid that a nut could fall off while romping around. once those fall off, i can never find them again.

[Silentbob343]

Yeah what size screws are you using? I'll be running by my LHS later this week for the Alu/Brass tubing.

[killer]

Originally posted by arch2b
can't wait to read about it, be sure to post nice instructions, please! looks very, very difficult.

what size brass members do you work with? angles or box tubes? what size screws do you reccomend, i have used size 80 on other projects. are there locknuts or lock washers for these tiny screws? i'm afraid that a nut could fall off while romping around. once those fall off, i can never find them again.

:ö: yup! i'll post all the progress with this project ;), about the parts, i am particular to use other type, like plastic, steel rod.. screw size?.. well i guess it depends on the size your project demands, yup! this new found hobby (for me, it's my first time to build a small 1/87 all-wheel-drive truck!) is prone to such incident, we could lost parts we've already finished by accidentally placing it on a small misc. box..

another update!,

as i have said, i really can't wait for the 3mm allum tubes to arrive so, i test my universal joint design on a Tamiya Racing Mini-4WD "steel" axle (hex in shape) armed with hand drill and mini-drill press, i start reshaping it to a U-Joint, and hey it works!!! :cool: (to post pic soon), the sad part,
Tamiya Racing Mini-4WD shaft is so thin that there's no room for error! :(, i mean, with a slight shake on your hand will ruin your work!, and you have to start making another one!, i was able to finish one (1) universal joint for almost 1 and half hour!!! and that's one tiny universal only!, and 3 more to go... :D, this truck is testing my patience! but who can't resist the prowess of 8x8 in an off-road track? i know, i can't, man i am so excited to finish this truck.. i hardly slept last night and keep staring at the 1/87 model OshKosh truck, man i'm obsesed with this!!! is this a sign that i'm infected by a the 1/87 Virus?..

-æ

[JTM]

that blue truck is deffo not 1/87 scale.. it would be as big as the space shuttle with fuel tanks if multiplied by 87

[arch2b]

i found a guy that will sell me the following for $123.00

2 - BP101 Plain Bearing - JR/Hitec (PICO STD)
1 - GWS R4P Receiver With XTAL
1 - GWT-4A Transmitter (F-Negative Shift) with XTAL
1 - GWS MC-2002 Peak Detect field charger

[Silentbob343]

lol I thought you said it was a good deal;)

[killer]

Originally posted by JTM
that blue truck is deffo not 1/87 scale.. it would be as big as the space shuttle with fuel tanks if multiplied by 87

:ö: JTM,

yes, you are right!, that blue truck is not 1/87 it's 1/15 in scale, what i said was.. it "looks" exactly just like that (now, with correct spelling :D), can't find a 1:1 pictiure of the 8x8 OSHKOSH TRUK, but my project truck is an 8x8 all-wheel-drive "1/87" in scale enough to fit two or three trucks at the palm of your hand and of the same model as the blue truck "not the same in size!".

ARCH!!! GOOD DEAL???? MAN THAT"S A GREAT DEAL!!!! :eek: GRAB IT!!! or you'll be sorry :(

project update:

i just finished all the universals need for the 8x8 "1/87" all-wheel-drive truck.. problem encountered, steering knuckles, have to redesign the steering knuckles to accomodate the universals i made and keep the trucks width, the same as the stock set-up or wider (just a little) than the stock.-æ

[arch2b]

thanks for the feedback. i'll place the order soon. when i see how it all works out with this guy, i'll post how others can contact him. i don't want to forward anyhing without knowing first. it's one thing if it ends up crap for me, i don't want that to happen to any of you good people.

your work sounds difficult. i can't wait to see pictures, please tell me you're documenting this, of all this work.

silentbob-
are you being sarcastic or you don't think it is? i'm unclear as how to read your reply.
it would cost about $142 at www.balsaproducts.com one of the few places to find all that.

[Silentbob343]

No sarcasm

When I made my original post I thought you had written "A good Deal". In my original reply I asked where you were getting the stuff. I then I went back and noticed you were asking if it "Is it a good deal?” It was my fault for not reading it correctly.

[arch2b]

it's ok. i don't like flaming on the forum, so i wanted to ask what you ment, thats all. god knows i've done the same thing dozens of times.

how is your project coming? what size brass are you going to be picking up? what truck are you using?

i'm collectiong the takara reissues as well. they are cheaper than getting originals that you never know if they were broken or pieced together. already have prime and sideswipe, isn't it, pre-ordered.

[Silentbob343]

I've got 1,2,3,4, and 6 of the Japanese Re-issues. I also have Optimus Prime, Hot Rod, and Ultra Magnus from the US re-issue. Though I like the Japanese re-issues because they don't have to apply the new safety rules to their toys like the US re-issues do. The missiles on the US re-issues are way too long.

1=Jazz
2=Prowl
3=Skids
4=Tracks
6=Megaton

I still have to get 5=smokescreen and 7=sideswipe I’m not sure if I'll get the Japanese re-issue of Optimus Prime since I have the US one.

but back the topic at hand I haven't come up with an exact size yet. All my LHS have terrible hours so today I'll be going out and getting the supplies before my lab. The Chassis I'm using is a 1/72 scale tank model. Thought it would be easier than to do first I don't have to create any complex steering. The electronics will be last thing I buy because I don't have the cash right now.

Hopefully if I have time and my supplies come in the mail i'll get most of the tread finished. I'll post pictures on the 1/87 tank thread that over started.

Does anybody know if the plasti dip-stuff can be colored? I need to make it black.

Again I'm sorry if my comment sounded sarcastic.

[arch2b]

don'tsweat it.
yes, plasti-dip comes in yellow, red, clear, blue, white and black. i bought a can of black last weekend. it cost about $6 at home depot.

[Silentbob343]

Where do you guys buy small hardware? Like screws, nuts, and washers. I can find the Aluminum/Brass tubingat my LHS. Home Depot doesn't really have a good selection of tiny hardware.

[killer]

:ö: actually, it's a picture of the universal joint i made out of Tamiya Racing Mini-4WD steel shaft!.. camera is quite an old model and not capable of close-up picture.. but here it is..

[killer]

:ö: another shoot.

[arch2b]

very impressive work. do you have a scanner you can use, it would provide better pictures.

i ordered the electronics, bought some brass stock yesterday. now i have to wait till it all arrives. i will probably get the micro screws as i build so i don't waste money on ones i don't need. they are expensive at my lhs. i'll be sure to document it's constuction. i'll probably post pictorial instructions in my member album on mzr. i can't wait to begin!

overlander-
sorry for asking questions you've already answered. this thread has gotten so long, it's been awhile since i've gone back to the begining.

[Overlander]

Killer,

That is awswesome!


-Todd

[Silentbob343]

those micro screws you mentioned do they have them in 1/16?

[Thorsten]

Hi,
if you are looking for microscrews, so take a look to the old watches and hifi-electronics or photo cameras. Here you will find many little screws, gears and so on.

Ok, maybee one problem withe the screws: You have only the screw and not the right nut.

But just take some grease on the screw and a little rapid glue in a hole. Then put the screw in the hole and wait for some seconds. After a little time you can turn out the screw and you get a perfect nut.

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[Overlander]

Silent bob,

Again, check a hobby store that specializes in model trains. Those, as well as most other hobby stores, carry miniature fasteners. Look for a brand name called "Hob-Bits"

Or try
www.smallparts.com
They are expensive, but they have many of the things you need.


-Todd

[arch2b]

i found an online store that has a good selection of k&s metals and micro screws. when i get back home (i'm out of town this weekend) i'll post the link. i might get some myself as my lhs is very expensive.

overlander-
nice collection of projects! i love the winter camo man 4x4on a flat car, but i'm not going to spend that much for it. i'm thinking about painting one of my man 4x4's white to make a UN truck. the all green one seems to be a very common choice and i want something that is somewhat unique. i only other UN man is an 8x8 with something in the back. the tatra is a nice truck. any luck with finding any other rally service vehicles?

[Silentbob343]

wow thanks for the replies guys. Yeah my LHS had most of the brass tubing I needed but no smalle hardware:( .

[arch2b]

no problem silentbob.
if it were not for overlander, thorsten, killer and others who posted i don't think this would as feasable for people who are attempting these little (big) projects. or atleast feel confident that we could. i've wanted to do one ever since i saw the first post and german sites a long, long time ago. i always thought it was only possible for experts and the such. (not that i don't think you guys who have done one aren't) seeing others do it and be so helpful to us who are trying has convinced me that i can. thanks guys, and good luck to everyone else trying like myself. can't wait to see more completed projects. who knows, maybe if enough of us have them, tiny will start a categorey just for us 1:87 or ttt people.
- i'll have the link up for you sunday night. i expect to get home after 10pm.

overlander-
nice pictures in your mzr album! i keep checking it every so often. i suggest others do as well.

[arch2b]

well, i'm back. heres the link for you.

hobbyplace.com (http://www.hobbyplace.com/tools/nutsnbolts.html)

[Silentbob343]

too sweet

thanks alot Arch

[Overlander]

thanks arch, that's a great link!


-Todd

[avenan]

Micromark also has a decent selection of small screws and whatnot:
http://www.dxmarket.com/micromark/dir/23.html

Little bit cheaper than hobbyplace on a per-screw basis. Also decent for tubing and the like.

[arch2b]

thanks for contributing the link. the more people contribute, the better off we are.:) better keep the total below $30. $6 is reasonable sh, but almost $10 for total over $30 is a bit steep. especially if you order more than $30 in screws and stock which can be done rather easily. i spent over $20 at my lhs just on brass stock. i don't think i'll be going back. Convenience has it's price i guess.

personaly, i get frustrated by sites without pictures. i like to be able to see what i intend to buy, even if it is just a drawing like on hobyplace. i find it much more helpful than just an inventory spreadsheet. especialy for those like myself who, if not for this project, would not know the difference between a fillister head and a hex head screw.;)

hobbyplace does have a good selection of brass stock as well, tubes, rods, angles, strips and sheets. a limited selection of aluminum.

[Overlander]

Arch,
I agree with you about pics in web advertizing.

However,
If you get microMark to send you a printed catalog, your miniature modeling experience will take on a whole new meaning. Micromark is one of the best suppliers of miniature tools.

I'm stuck in a hotel right now. At least I got broadband!

-Todd

[killer]

:ö: an aditional tip or advice to those who are just planning to make their own 1/87 TTTT... "don't forget to insulate those exposed battery terminals" !!!, i know, this is common sense but, i think i forgot where i placed mine :D, co'z "i did not insulate those battery terminals" :p , what happened was i was trying to climb a foot high homemade dirt hill, the hill was so steep that my truk rolled 5 times all the way down, this is a common incident, but this time, when i placed the truck back, it was not responding to my command, then, and smoke comes out at the back of the truck! :eek: ... i opened the back, battery was hot, and same goes with the reciever :(,...

solution? i suggest you cut a small circle out of an electrical tape or masking tape (same circumperence as your battery) and place it on the terminals after installing all the wires on your battery! this may prevent unnecessary short circuit !.

1/87 8 x 8 truck project update:
steering knuckes... damn! this thing is giving me a headache!, and pushing my patience to the limit! :p... good news is.. i'm nearly finished with the first front axle!!!.. i wish i could bring my gadgets to my work and continue working on this, man my day-job is a big hindrance to this project!! :D
-æ

[arch2b]

overlander-
thanks, i think i'll do that.

hey, i was just browsing around and i found the tatra you are looking for.
86170 - Czech Tatra 813 Trial Truck (http://www.reynaulds.com/artitec/a86170.asp)

http://www.reynaulds.com/artitec/images/a86170.jpg

[killer]

:ö: project 1/87 all-wheel-drive 8 x 8 truck update..
finished parts list,

1. chassis
2. geared oscillating rear axle (2 pcs.)
3. geared oscillating front axle (1 pc.) whew! :D... just one more front axle... ;)
4. universal joints (6 pcs. or 3 pairs)
5. geared motor.

-æ

[Overlander]

Arch2b,
Yeah, I ordered that from the link you posted a few weeks back. It is on back order. They also make a 6x6 I think.

Stuck in the Westin St. Francis,
-Todd

[Overlander]

Good advice Killer:D !!


A follow up to Killer's advice on insulating batteries.

I had a problem with my speed control touching my brass frame that caused a short and blew up the control. Also, my batteries in the cab of my UNIMOG have to rest right on top of the frame and I knew this would cause an explosion:eek:

I used the infamous [B]PLASTI DIP[B/] to insulate all battery ends and certain circuit boards. Actually it is a product called Liquid Electrical Tape from a company named Starbright (they make cleaning products for my boat too). It is esentially the same as Plasti dip. Just paint it on and let it dry completetly. it might take a couple of coats, but dont make it too thick unless you have a lot of room:) My UNIMOG was so crowded that even a thick coating would have taken up too much space.

-Todd

[Thorsten]

Hi,
even this is another reason to use painted copper wire (like use in relais and transformators).

If you use a very thin coper wire, so in case of a shortcut, the wire will be demaged, not the circuit.
You can see the shortcut by the colour from the wire (or the missing wire, if the shortcut was a fatal one)

Another question:

Whats about the 8x8x Tatra??? I always saw the pictures of a catalouge-model and not pictures of your truck?????? ;-)))

I'am still unable to build a powered steering axle and I want to learn to build one.


best regards

Thorsten


www.mikromodell.de

[killer]

:ö:

here is a drawing i made on MS Paint (sorry i don't have an AUTO CAD program :( ) on how i made my universals for my front tires to be able to drive and steer as well ...

this will be an easy task if you make it on an allum tube, you don't need make part no.3 you can solder the connecting rod in the middle which will act as your cross joint(?)..

if you got any question, i'll be glad to answer it!.

-æ

[killer]

:ö: take note that these universal is made from a "rod" and not a tube, you can use a brass / allum. tubes to make part no.1 and 2 and use a allum/ brass "rod " to make part no.3 -æ

[arch2b]

KILLER-
what diameter rod are you working with?

[killer]

:ö: Arch,

i'm using a 2mm rod.. i've also attached a drawing to explain how this should look like when used using a larger tube.

[arch2b]

killer-
more props to you! i don't think i could work that small. i found very nice drawings of how to make a universal joint, same as yours, on ig mikromodell (http://www.mikromodell.de/)

[killer]

:ö: arch,
thanks for the additional info!, but i found it easier to build the middle part of the joint by, drilling two holes first on a 2mm rod, then shape/shave it up to the point that it'll fit between the first two parts... there you go again, with your, "i think i can't do that!" line, hey, i thought it was impossible for me too!, but i really want an 8 x 8 all-wheel-drive truck.. then i give it a try.. and it works! it's a bit harder than making the front axle at first, but give it try!, though, i suggest you build your truck first, with a rear wheel drive, this will build your confidence to try building a front drive/steering axle. :) .. right now i'm in the process of building the second front steering/drive axle to complete my 8 wheel dirve truck project, hope to finish this truck soon! ;)

i'll try to post some pics of my 3 finished axle, including the front axle..

hey, how's your project truck doing?

-æ

[arch2b]

right now my project is still in the pencil and paper stage of design. i have my brass stock, i should recieve my roco's and faller truck by tuesday, my electronics early next week as well, the batteries and a motor for my overland from the mzr shop by late next week hopefully. so i expect to begin construction late next week.
i'm very excited to see your 8x8 and overlander begin on his tatra.

it looks like tiny will give us our own section on the forum as well:D i hope everyone will thank him.:D

[killer]

:ö:

[killer]

pic 2

[killer]

pic3

[killer]

front axle

[killer]

pic6

[killer]

rear

[killer]

:ö: hehehe, i know it's 6x6 :p , as of now, but right now, i'm in the process fo building the 2nd front axle, and add it up to the front, then connect a steering link to make this two axle steer to the same direction.:) -æ

[arch2b]

killer- wow, i'm speechless. very impressive.

any chance you could scan the parts, something to get more clear, close up pictures?

[killer]

Originally posted by arch2b
killer- wow, i'm speechless. very impressive.

any chance you could scan the parts, something to get more clear, close up pictures?

:ö:

thanks arch! i'll see what i can do to get a more clear close-up of the parts... i'll see if my friend could bring his digicam next week, and hopefully by then, i'm finished with this thing :), i'm so excited to drive this thing around my homemade dirt hills :D.

-æ

[killer]

Originally posted by arch2b

it looks like tiny will give us our own section on the forum as well:D i hope everyone will thank him.:D

:ö: arch! is that true? tiny's going to give us our own thread? hey that's cool! no need to go to "Other Tiny RC" :cool: ..... thanks!
-æ

[killer]

:ö: hey!.. where's everybody?!.., guess what?.. as my project 8x8 started to take shape..i've been thinking.. this thing is huge compared to my first 1/87 truck, although, if you compare the size of my first truck (the original set-up was 6x6) to this 8x8 both on a 1:1 scale, the first truck is relatively shorter and smaller than the 8x8 truck ... and as we all know that, as the truck's length increases, the turning radius also increases.. not good for trials.... i guess i'll finish this project first and see how things will be like.. or this project will end up being a 6x6 or two 4x4 trucks. :D -æ

[arch2b]

i don't know, it's been slow lately.
judging from your pictures you posted, whatever it ends up being, it's going to be nice.
do you have a trial setup? i keep meaning to look in the attic for my ho foam layout. i don't want to get ahead of myself though.

off topic-
while waiting for my 1:87 parts to come in the mail, i've been tinkering on my overland again. i made a qiuck light set with the 4 leftover leds from my bit light sets i've made.
my light set on my overland (http://mini-zracer.com/albums/album58/mz148.sized.jpg)

[Overlander]

Hey guys!,
I have spent a few hours in the shop today. Man, my job is kicking my butt this year. I am way behind on my hobby projects.

I just want to thank everyone for keeping the interest up on this thread!

Killer,
That 8x8 is looking fantastic!! You are definitely motivated.

Here are some pics of my MAN 5t chassis that I did today. It will have both axles articulating and will use springs for stability.

I am still working on the steering linkage. This is still just experimental.....

-Todd

[Overlander]

Different view. Still no linkage....

[Overlander]

Bottom.

[arch2b]

wow:D
it looks liek you are doing some custom milling. how are you making those nice steering axles? they look good. using bearings seems like it would make it roll nice and smooth. the rear gearbox is imperssive. i should be paying you for parts!

i'm hoping the tttt section will be up soon! (was told any day now:D ) i hope you guys will re-post pictures of finished projects in the gallery section.

[Overlander]

It is all milled from brass bar stock.

You can make an axle without a mill! Here are a couple of pics from our buds in Germany. Sorry, I forgot wich site they came from.....

The knuckles are a little too complex, and could be made much simpler.

[Overlander]

another pic of the same axle.

[killer]

:ö: thanks O, but gee those parts you've made are awsome!!! :cool:, nobody beats a decade of experience!!! ;)...

my project 8x8 update:

i just finished the last front axle!.. but i'm having a problem with the steering link.. :mad:... tinker.. tinker after 1hour :(... after2hours :)....then :D... i got it! :p... this time this should work! -æ

[killer]

:ö: the website?... it's http://www.mikro-truck-trial.de/ -æ

[Racemonster505]

i so like the "explorer" i like the shape can that model be bought?
or is one of a kind ?

[arch2b]

each one of these is a one-of-a-kind

[killer]

Originally posted by arch2b
each one of these is a one-of-a-kind

:ö:
racemonster,
and that's the best part of it! :cool:

arch2b,
about my track?.. i just dug up some dirt/soil on our backyard and use filter to filter big rocks, then i placed the dirt on top of a square table with a piece of plywood attached on the sides to keep the dirt from falling, then i hard packed it, then i used some plaster of paris on some parts of the track, ei nice light set-up you got there, getting ready for the next paris-dakar racing?! ;).

-æ

[arch2b]

killer- i know overlander started a course thread, love to see pictures there!

[tinyrc]

Originally posted by arch2b
it looks like tiny will give us our own section on the forum as well:D i hope everyone will thank him.:D

All set guys! arch2b sent me a list of threads, let me know if there are any others that should be moved over too. Thanks! :)

[JTM]

u da man tiny.. u.. da.. man

[Silentbob343]

Tiny there was one more that I know of for TTTT track vehicles, i.e. tanks and such.

Thanks for making a seperate section

Found it

http://tinyrc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7816

[arch2b]

tiny- sent a list with several threads. i can post the list again if need be.

http://tinyrc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7752&highlight=servo

can you copy this post to tttt?
http://tinyrc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7676&highlight=servo
i know it's not directly related but but very helpful parts wise.

thanks for our own section:D

[tinyrc]

Hehe, I foolishly posted "let me know of any other links" before I'd actually moved all of the links over, I've moved all the ones from arch2b and Overlander's emails, only one missing was that Dean's connectors thread which I'm copying over now. By the way, we've got those connectors if anyone is interested. I'm going to start a new "wishlist" thread which will be something you guys can post requests to for items you'd like us to stock in the Shop for TTTT projects. :)

btrc

[arch2b]

woo hoo! great idea:D there are soo many parts, it's hard to know where to start. any luck with sourcing an am rx? this and minizracer will become my one stop shop! i already have a few things to add on the my order list when the gpm parts come in to the mzr shop.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Can anyone tell me where I can get the IR electronics used in the HO Smart? I really want a 1/64 scale F-1 :)

[Thorsten]

Hi Oldtamiyaphile,
the electronis in the smart is selfmade by a friend of mine. He use a "normal" IR transistor and a "normal" ir-transmitter-led.

The encoder and decoder are programmed in a atmel microchip (a-tiny-15 I think). Also the servo and the speedcontroler.
You also need a step-up-voltage regulator to get 3 volts out of a 1.2v battery.

In a feew weeks I think, the whole electronic of the smart you can buy at www.mikroantriebe.de . They planed a kit for rebuilding a small 1/87 car.
Maybee they offer a 1/87 Van complete ready to run. But still waiting a few weeks.

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[killer]

:ö: WOHOOO!!! :D i thought i was lost! :p ... na thread for a 1/87 scale rc! thanks tiny! -æ

[Silentbob343]

OTP welcome to TinyRC. haha now I'm more senior than you ;)

[arch2b]

sbob- curious, why the triple post
welcome oldtamiyaphile:)

[Silentbob343]

Ahh the delete is under the edit options

Arch it was a mistake, sorry to everybody I've deleted them.

[arch2b]

don't have to apologize:D i thought it was for emphasis or something. god knows i've had to delete my own posts before.;)

[oldtamiyaphile]

That's great news Thorsen. I'll get started on the chassis tonight, well, the design at least :)

[arch2b]

otp- look foward to see and reading about your project. it's not a tttt, but f1's are cool and i've never seen one that small.

[arch2b]

good news, i got mymzr order in with my batteries, my discount train order with my faller bus and roco trucks.

i want to do something to make my man different, the plain green isn't very appealing to me. i tested some testor flat black spray paint on a spare roco i picked up cheap. let me know what you think, as i will paint one of my man's if anyone besides myself thinks it looks ok.

test vehicle

[Overlander]

I kinda like it. Leave the windows clear though:cool:

[arch2b]

i forgot to take the windows out:rolleyes: i already have the black paint. i'm considering an artic white (similar to UN color) and the desert camo tan. i will them up this weekend and paint different sections of my test vehicle. i'll post a picture to see what you guys think.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Just a suggestion, but at the AFV section of the LHS, you should be able to find quite a lot of 1/72 scale truck kits. The slightly larger scale should make them easier and cheaper to convert, and are closer to Bit scale for those who are that way inclined.

[arch2b]

if you look closely though, few other manufacturers' have the same level of detail that roco and maybe wilkins have. most of the domestic manufacturers' look very toyish comparatively. of the few lhs' around me, they only carry a few n scale and 1:72 commercial trucks, tractors and the like. nothing that i would want to invest $200 in electronics in. if you've found a nice vehicle, than you're lhs has a better selection than mine.

[Silentbob343]

Yeah i'm using a 1/72 scale tank to try before I try HO scale

arch

I was never able to find out but maybe you know. Do the Roco tanks have moveable treads.

[arch2b]

sbob-
i didn't know the answer myself, so i emailed several vendors and got a reply from www.reynaulds.com , which said they were moveable. however i trust thorsten more than i do an email that simply said 'moveable.'

thanks for the answer thorsten.

[Thorsten]

Hi,
the Roco tanks dont have movable thread. I dont know any 1/87 tank with movable threads.
You can buy some larger tanks and rebuild the threads in a 1/87 tank.

Or you have to create your own ones.

best regards

Thorsten

[arch2b]

thorsten-
are you making your own for your crane?

[Silentbob343]

Yeah that's what I figured

I'm building my own tread from and I find that's one of the most time consuming parts to this project.

Arch
take a peek at the track vehicle thread Thorsten has some great pics of his crane. That crane looks great

[Thorsten]

Hi arch2b,
I am unable to build the chains. But a good friend of mine has made them of brass.
Sorry I dont know the tips and hints he use, so I can't tell you how to made them.

But,.... they works very good ;-)

best regards

Thorsten

[Overlander]

Well I am finally home for more than two days! Hopefully after I take care of some badly needed yardwork I can spend more time here on the forum!

Here are a few pics of how I am assembling my frame, bed and servo:

This first one is of the frame and front axle. Notice the notch in the top of the frame to allow clearence for the servo housing

[Overlander]

This one shows how much of the bottom of the Roco MAN 5t cargo bed plastic has to be removed:

[Overlander]

This one shows how the notch in the frame lines up with the servo mounting hole. It also shows how the cargo bed is mounted to the frame with 2mm screws:

[Overlander]

This is a side view (duh).

[Overlander]

This shows the assembly from the bottom. The servo clears perfectly:

[Overlander]

This one shows a lot. Notice the two 1.5mm holes in the front end of the frame (top of picture) for mounting the drivers cab later. Also notice how the frame fits nice and flat on the bottom of the cargo bed. As I said before, this is my second truck and I want to use little or no glue. Everything will be fastened with screws.

[Overlander]

This one shows the simple steering linkage. Also notice the springs on either side of the gearbox. These allow the gearbox to tilt from side to side.

[Overlander]

Now that I have the gearbox placement, the body height, and the steering placement and linkage worked out and assembled, I can start laying out and designing the electronics and lights.

[arch2b]

i isp has been out since friday night and it has just now come back up this (sunday) afternoon. and look at the amazing pictures overlander has posted. i am soo jealous;)

overlander- i ended up painting my man white:D i didn't know yours was as well. it looks like yours came white?

[Overlander]

Hi arch,

Yes, the one I am building now is the MAN 5t Prolog Offroad truck. It is white plastic.
Here is the model:
http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/Roco-Automobiles-MAN-Off-Road-Truck-ProLog/item625-1647.html

Did you get your parts yet?

[arch2b]

overlander-
sorry my responses might be infrequent. my isp went out for a couple of hours, again. a repair guy is comming out monday. atleast it's been in and out today, so i've gotten some emails.

[arch2b]

as i mentioned earlier, i painted my 5t man white. i think it turned out well. since the paint can't get into the tiny outlines perfectly, it gives shadow lines, texture and, in places, makes the details easier to see. i reassembled it for the picture. sorry it's soo big. as soon as mini z/tiny can get my album on mzr fixed, i'll be posting all my tttt pictures to a tttt album in my album. i'll come back ad edit this then.

[Overlander]

Hey! That white paint looks great!
I cant paint to save my life! Did you use an air brush? When I try to spray paint from a can, I always seem to get it on too thick. That job you did puts my painting skills to shame:eek:

[killer]

:ö: arch,

don't tell me that, that was a green truck before?!!!.. great job man! ;) -æ