dNano Aluminum Wheels (w/ pics)

[fraz]

I told ya I was cooking up something:) Click on the photo to see more close up pics.

http://fraz.com/images/dnano/launch_wheels/dnano_collage_sm.jpg (http://www.fraz.com/groups/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37)

[Marcro]

OH! ME WANTS, ME WANTS! Those kind of look like inch-up's too! Very nice! Did you machine those your selfe or what?

[Marcro]

Hello there. Has anybody seen these wheels on ebay? Check out item number 130245743807.
Somebody in Germany made a beautiful set of aluminum AVM style wheels for the Murcielago. I just picked up a set for mine! Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!

[fraz]

OH! ME WANTS, ME WANTS! Those kind of look like inch-up's too! Very nice! Did you machine those your selfe or what?

Yes, I did the CAD and these are specially machined for the dNano with the right size, lip and offset and locking nub. I can tell by looking at those ebay whels they are for a model or a slot car and while they may somewhat work or look good on a dNano, they won't have the locking nub/pin.

My buddy has a Haas CNC mill and we spent many hours getting the tool paths, etc. correct for these wheels. I am looking into production run costs with polishing and anodizing and I am checking around to gauge interest.

As for size, they are not inch ups but exact size of the 18" and 20" wheels on that dNano. It is an optical illusion because there is a little less meat/thickness on the rim and on the spokes. Typically an aluminum part is heavier but I would say these are equal or even lighter. My scale only goes to 1g resolution so I can't tell for sure right now.

Let us know what the fit and finish is like on those AVM wheels when you get them.

[fraz]

I just noticed on that wheel auction... "the car does not belong in action" so they are for shelf use only:) They looked way too wide.

[simpleskin]

Very cool wheels, I'm interested in them. Will you produce all the sizes or just 18 and 20?

-j

[Marcro]

Thank's Faz, I did not know that. I'm a little bumbed now cause I was hopeing they were for the running chassis, not for the dumby chassis. I wanted to run the car with these wheels.
You should look into making different designs, inch-up's and width's. Some deep dish would be ideal for the rear wheels. I'm now more interested in your set than those AVM's. I haven't actually payed for theme yet so I'm wondering if they are worth the investment since as you said won't work on the running chassis. As for anodyzing goes, it would be cool to see theme in gold, blue, red, gun-metal, green even for that Mazda.

[fraz]

Yeah so the idea is to do 18 and 20 first namely because I have that car and if you look at the chart, they are the most popular combo. It is also very close for like 2 other cars. My friend just picked up a 917K and it has the most drastic size differences so I am going to use that as a test fit for clearance as well. The offsets are all the same so the diameters are the only thing that changes. I have a feeling that the 18/20 combo will work for the biggest cross section of dNano users. I was also thinking clear, gold, and black anodizing (no red, blue, purple, etc.) Gotta keep production costs in reality and I don't have a ton of money to throw away at a pet project. As it stands now, the initial CAD work and the prototypes you are looking at would have cost easily over $500-600 if I had shopped it out. It really helps to have a great friend with a killer CNC mill a mile from my house that is into this stuff too and has the skills:)

The CAD has been designed so the scaling should be a lot easier now for other sizes, offsets, etc. The problem is I have to get the production quotes back and see what is feasible and how much to charge based on the cost. dNano schtuff is very expensive and while I think I could charge higher prices, my goal is to make them priced low enough to where everybody would want, and be able to afford a couple sets. Ultimately I would love to have them cheap enough to where it is a non-decision and you'd go "I've gotta have 3-4 sets". I will keep y'all posted what I find.

BTW, the deep dish thing may have limitations. You do have some clearance issues and it does change your offset and handling greatly. I wouldn't be eager to go there if you want your car to work right. Not to mention, my wheels are WAY lighter than I thought they would be. Light and strong is good, extra material and more weight, not so good.

[Marcro]

Hi there, your colors sound great, but I was suggesting blue to match with Kyosho's aluminum parts.
By the way, the ebay seller of those AVM Daytona wheels sent me a couple of pictures of the wheels mounted on I assume his Dnano. Look's really good, but the rear's are wide and it look's like it needs to sets of tires, kind of like Tagu's 1/24 scale wheels useing two sets of Mini-Z tires.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/marq74/IMG_4085.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/marq74/IMG_4086.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/marq74/IMG_4087.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/marq74/IMG_4088.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/marq74/IMG_4089.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/marq74/IMG_4090.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/marq74/IMG_4091.jpg
I've asked him to take some more pic's of the inside of the wheels to see if those locking nub's are there. That is a crucial design with these rim's.
I did not think about the width causeing handling problems since it works so well on the larger Z's. I hope you do more styles, would be nice to see some BBS style wheels but I fully understand that pattern would be difficult at that scale.

[nic-z]

Given I have my merci mini-z hooked up with the tagu rims that are the same style and scale with, I couldn't resist these, I'll make them work if not I don't mind too much.

[Marcro]

Cool nic, take pics and let us know how you like'em.

[nic-z]

I got them today, They are sweet! Figured out an easy way to make them drivable. and still swap out wheels if needs be. I will post pics when I finish, I also need to find some more stock wheels for the double wide rears.

[Marcro]

Hi there nic-Z, did you receive the disc damper yet?

[nic-z]

Marc, Yeah man it looks dope trying to find some matching screws and I will take some pictures of it. I got those wheels mounted and I think the guy who sold them ment 'Car not included in AUCTION' because the wheels have knobs on the back of them that fit perfect on the slots and freak these things hook up nice on the track, I need to order some rear wheels for the fronts for better traction but yeah here are some pictures with and with out the tires. and then side by side with my mini-z
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=myimages;u=2

[Marcro]

Sweet man. I need to get me some. Anybody have any information on the ball differential? I've tried contacting the owner of the DnanoShop but have not heard from him like two three month's now it seems. I wonder if it's worth trying to order from the shop.
Nic-Z, post pic's of that disc damper and let us know what you think. Let me know if it's worth investing in making more of theme!
If you can get a spare screw set for the Dnano, those should work for it.

[fovea3d]

Yes these AVM Daytona wheels rock.
Got them and made 9mm wide foams for the rear (with a Dremel from a block of foam). I use 10° rear tires on the front wheels. The grip is amazing on low pile carpet, as this is the surface we race on here.

http://alain.galluser.free.fr/Z/DnanoMurcieAVM04.jpg
http://alain.galluser.free.fr/Z/DnanoMurcieAVM05.jpg
http://alain.galluser.free.fr/Z/DnanoMurcieAVM06.jpg
http://alain.galluser.free.fr/Z/DnanoMurcieAVM08.jpg
http://alain.galluser.free.fr/Z/DnanoMurcieAVM09.jpg
http://alain.galluser.free.fr/Z/DnanoMurcieAVM10.jpg

[nic-z]

very cool, where did you find the foam and how did you dremel it so perfectly? I am using some stock rear and skinny fronts on the rear right now but can't find anywhere to buy some spare rear tires for the front where did you get yours? thx

[fovea3d]

By chance I had these mini-z foams.

They are in fact sold as a complete cylinder and you have to remove the inner part wich is pre-cut. I drilled and shaped that ;)

First I needed to drill the centre. I used those stone conic dremel bits to do that.

Then mounted the wheel on the dremel using the Dnano rear hub and a metal axle.

Finally I used dremel bits to manually remove the excess thickness to the correct diameter and to round the angles.

http://alain.galluser.free.fr/Z/foamtires.jpg

For the front I used the stock rear tires wich are shore 10. I don't know if this combo will be any good on RCP but for carpet it is just perfect.

[Marcro]

Wow, that look's so much better on the rear wheel's than useing two narrow's up front. Do you still have that material left over and how much for a set? I'd like to try on my RCP. Will foam tirs in general work on RCP track? I'm curious.............I'm sure Nic-Z would also like a set.

[fovea3d]

Wow, that look's so much better on the rear wheel's than useing two narrow's up front. Do you still have that material left over and how much for a set? I'd like to try on my RCP. Will foam tirs in general work on RCP track? I'm curious.............I'm sure Nic-Z would also like a set.
No, I gave what I had left to my club friends last friday.
I can MP you and Nic-Z the shop url so you can order the Z tires only for the inner part, you can make 8 Dnano tires with a set of 2: its worth it :)

[Marcro]

LOL! Thank's, but I'm not good at making stuff like that. I was hoping you'd make it and I'd buy it from you.
You said that you used the stock rear tires for the front aluminum ones? Are the aluminum wheels that much wider than the stocks? I know the rear ones are, but the fronts?
Can you make us a video showing the Dnano on the track with your set up? I'd love to see it in action with those rims. Their so beautiful! I was hoping Tagu would make'em first, but I think AVM has better quality and detail. I like how AVM shows the rivets on the two-peice wheels for the Mini-Z's and I can't wait to get my Daytona's.

[fovea3d]

Well I need to order a few set to do that but I was not about to order foams very soon.
Yep the front AVM wheels have the perfect width for the rear tires. I guess that was intentional.
Watch your thread "post videos of your Dnanos", I posted a video from last friday night. We raced 5 Dnanos, you will clearly see the gain in grip of my Murcie with the foams, but that won't last as I gave tires to most of my friends :rolleyes:

[tinyrc]

A, can you shoot me a link to the foams, we might want to stock them in the Shop? Thanks! :)

[Marcro]

Is there a chance to do rubber versions? I have asked AVM directly to see if they had "special" tires for these wheels, we'll wait their responce. They are giving me a great deal for both MR02 and Dnano Daytona style wheels for 90 bucks shipped!
Will keep you informed as to what they tell me. If anything............
I'm still curious how the foams will work on RCP as that's what I use at home.

[fovea3d]

It may be interesting to check whats available for slot cars, particulary Carrera Go slotcars (1/43) and maybe some 1/32 slot cars.
If you google slot car tires you will see they use rubber, foam (called sponge) or silicon.

[nic-z]

I'd be interested in the site where you get the foams would love to make a set. since right now I am running these
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/1/thumb_2_07_10_08_12_51_21_0.JPGhttp://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/gallery/1/thumb_2_07_10_08_12_51_22_1.JPG

[Marcro]

Hey there Nic-Z! Nice disc-damper you got there! Geee, I wonder where you got that from? Hmmmmmmm. LOL!
How are you likeing it? Do you notice a difference in the cars handling with it on? Or do you just like the way it looks on there?
Have you been able to find the right sized discs for it? You should get the ball differential next! Later!

[lornecherry]

fovea3d could you please send me a link to those foam "racing Tyres" from racerear. I cannot find anything google. Also, it appears the Speed Way Pal tire truer is no longer made (perhaps I missed it on their site). I do want to try these foams on my carpet track.

[MROSS 1]

Yeah so the idea is to do 18 and 20 first namely because I have that car and if you look at the chart, they are the most popular combo. It is also very close for like 2 other cars. My friend just picked up a 917K and it has the most drastic size differences so I am going to use that as a test fit for clearance as well. The offsets are all the same so the diameters are the only thing that changes. I have a feeling that the 18/20 combo will work for the biggest cross section of dNano users. I was also thinking clear, gold, and black anodizing (no red, blue, purple, etc.) Gotta keep production costs in reality and I don't have a ton of money to throw away at a pet project. As it stands now, the initial CAD work and the prototypes you are looking at would have cost easily over $500-600 if I had shopped it out. It really helps to have a great friend with a killer CNC mill a mile from my house that is into this stuff too and has the skills:)

The CAD has been designed so the scaling should be a lot easier now for other sizes, offsets, etc. The problem is I have to get the production quotes back and see what is feasible and how much to charge based on the cost. dNano schtuff is very expensive and while I think I could charge higher prices, my goal is to make them priced low enough to where everybody would want, and be able to afford a couple sets. Ultimately I would love to have them cheap enough to where it is a non-decision and you'd go "I've gotta have 3-4 sets". I will keep y'all posted what I find.

BTW, the deep dish thing may have limitations. You do have some clearance issues and it does change your offset and handling greatly. I wouldn't be eager to go there if you want your car to work right. Not to mention, my wheels are WAY lighter than I thought they would be. Light and strong is good, extra material and more weight, not so good.

Nice post! Have you any other rims availible? If so when will they be out? Thanks in advance!

[lornecherry]

I am certainly interested in these wheels also - but especially for the front -- if they have a slightly larger overhang towards the kingpin and would thus shield the inner portion of the front wheel from carpet hairs.

[arch2b]

here is an interesting question:
dnano body compatibility is far more complicated than that of it's big brother the mini-z. at 1:28, all we have to do is match a wheel offset with chassis built track width and body tolerances for potential trackwidth. for 1:43, we find ourselves dealing with setting kits and all the intricate tiny peices inorder to change a body and or wheels.

would you not prefer to have wheels offered by measured offset alone or in kits that would include/require the setting kits?

it would require tabulating the chassis built trackwidth for each setting kit in order to determine what wheel offset would be needed but this would seemingly eliminate the need for altering the setting kit unless your tweaking minute details.
recently there has been new developments/products specifically to alter then chassis built track width for the mini-z so there are plenty of people that have subtle differences or preferences in these areas and the dnano has this capability built in to some degree.

[Marcro]

One thing I would like to see arch, is scale-wheels designed for use on the RC chassis. This is one thing I never understood about the Dnano. All the Mini-Z's have their very own set of scale wheels to match the given car. Why didn't they do that for the Dnano? If they can spend the time to make the scale wheels for each "body", why not for the chassis?
Some cars look okay with the stock RC wheels, while others look ugly. I'd like to see proper offsets for each body and I'd like to see more scale RC wheels. I like the aluminum wheels we already have available, but would like to see more.
I agree, changing out the body is a pain in the butt. I think their hoping you'd buy a whole new RC chassis set rather just a new body and simply snapping it on.

[fraz]

Been away for a bit, wrecked my motorcycle and am home recovering:(

arch: I thought about the offset thing too and I am convinced that Kyosho did it the right way. All dNano wheels are the same offset. So you can use different wheels on various cars and just change out the hubs. If you add offset to the wheels, then you make the wheels car specific and also add a ton to the machining complexity.

marcro: Scale is nice but heavy, longer time to machine, and specific to a given car. From a business standpoint, it is a non-starter. Heck even doing a given style in multiple diameters is very costly for short production runs. Personally, I am all about performance and good looks at same time. The first wheels we did "feel" same weight as plastic. No way are any of the other aluminum wheels I have seen even close. Light wheels are one of the biggest performance hopups you can get as it affects unsprung weight AND rotating mass of drivetrain.

lorne: extending the wheel lip would relly do nothing to help keep junk out of kingpins/bearings. Trust me after over 30 years in racing r/c I can safely say debris will find it's way in where you don't want it no matter what. The solution is stay on top of cleaning and maintenance and/or get a cleaner racing surface.

I have not given up on this project and other designs I am working on. I have scrapped the guy I was getting quotes from so I am trying a couple others and hopefully I can find reasonable pricing.

[lornecherry]

Fraz, arch ...you both bring up intersting points with respect to handling and overall "performance" that I have been road-testing, as I continue to develop track surfaces (a really good racing surface announcement is coming soon).

To me the dNaNo has been very close to my kart racing experience, and although I never raced shifter karts (the very fastest), when I did drive them ... speed was never the issue, it was turn-in and acceleration out of the corners that differentiated performance between the shifter karts and the slower karts. And so it is with the d'NaNo ...they are very quick out of the box ...too much so for most drivers ...it's tweakling them to go where you intend them (oversteer/understeer, camber and toe-in and turn-in) that is so very diffiuclt to dial-in, because every minute change is amplified by the cars light weight. So where am I going with this?

Racing science has certainly taken a back seat to on-track testing with the d'NaNo and strategies that worked with the Mini-Z's manifest in different ways on the d'NaNo. The very best handling (on an EVA foam-like material) has been by using 19 Rear wheels up front. I had to modify the front suspension parts to fit, but nothing major ... just a quick Dremmel and shaving down the kingpin (which also lessens weight).

I have done extensive testing with the wider front tires/rims and prefer that combination to just using stickier rubber (i.e. going to a 10 or 20 degree front). With wider fronts, there are less traction rolls and the handling is more natural with less understeer on fast sweepers or banked corners.

I have tried this mod on the Porshe and Mazda LeMans cars and will be doing the Ferrari and others soon. So if you make some light weight 19's, I will give them a try.

[arch2b]

while i agree with fraz about weight with mini-z's, i simply do not agree that less is better with the dnano. it's like putting a hot motor in an mr-01 with no upgrades (like we all did 9 years ago). sure it goes fast as hell in a straight line but as soon as you turn, your all over the place.

i like the stability the fractional increase in weight aluminum parts give you on the dnano. yes, with the wheels it's all unsprung weight, etc. etc. etc. we all know the routine with mini-z's. it doesn't necessarily translate 100% with dnano in my opinion. the speed/weight ratios is more extreme for one. now this may not hold true for those top 10% drivers that can hold a car like it's on tracks but i've never been in that bracket and likely never will. fraz may well be there and it's amazing to see it happen but what works for those types doesn't work for the average person all the time because the driving style is soo different and less controlled.

i plan on getting aluminum wheels for all my dnano's. not sure about the other aluminum hop ups but the wheels are a worthwhile purchase in my opinion.

as lorne has pointed out, i too may try the wider front wheels as well. i just have to check in with aluma-tech about new styles and ordering a couple more pairs. maybe even talk to him about anodizing colors!

[Marcro]

I've also asked him about anodizing as well and he said they can do that. I'd love to have the spokes done and have the lip's left polished.
I'm craving for a set of BBS meshed pattern wheels! Gold ones would be nice too!

Speaking of wheels, I just purchased the white Subaru WRX STI Dnano model, and I'd like to get a set of gold wheels for it. Just the normal ones, where can I order the colored Dnano wheels, and what size does the Subaru take? Can I go inch-up with the Subaru?