Motor Power/RPM Tests

[Namuna]

Here are the RPM tests I've been promising, along with an updated Power Usage test. Keep in mind these are just the motors that I have...I don't own a store (that's Tiny's gig) so if you don't see a motor tested here it's because I don't have it.

Motors tested
Tomy: 1.0, 1.6, 2.2 and 2.6
ZipZaps: Stock, Performance, Turbo, and Racing
Bit Char-gmotors: 2.6, 3.0, 3.2 and 3.8
TinyRC: 3.8, R-spec and Formula34

Testing environment
For the RPM tests:
I used a Tachometer that Wild03 (Forum Member) made. All props and credit for that belongs to him. you can build one as well, check out his site:
http://www.geocities.com/wdiaz03/tachcometer.html

Instead of putting the mouse encoder wheel (from the site above) directly on the Motor...I took apart a 12:1 Axle and attached the encoder to the Axle. The reason for doing this was because my first batch of tests had erroneous results at higher than 22,000rpm. Using the axle with the 12:1 gearing brings down the initial readings and results in better numbers.

Once mounted to the car, the car was charged to full, run for a short time and then the tests were done at ~1.34v

For the Power Usage tests:
The Motors were mounted in a clip from a work badge (looks like a big alligator clip) with a ground wire run through touching the barrel when mounted. To provide the power, the ground wire was run to one side of a battery (a fully charged, 160mAH NiMH Bit battery) and the negative was run through my Digital Multimeter (in series, to get readings) and then to the metal piece on the motor endbell to close the circuit and get the motor running.

In previous tests the PCB was in the middle and any limitation of the PCB would taint the results. This time the tests are done straight from the power source.

I tested for no load against the motor and 'stalled' (the motor shaft was forcefully held not to spin).



Results:

All results (in the Power Usage tests) are in MilliAmps (mA)

http://tinyrc.com/lincoln/Images/Misc/MotorTests/MotorTests.gif

* Indicates I had more than 1 of that Motor and the number listed is the average of all the tests for those motors.


Final Thoughts
In the RPM department, for the most part the motors perform to what they're rated. The higher RPM motors come in a little under their rating though, but not by much.

As far as the Current usage tests, there's 2 things these numbers tell you; motor efficiency (runtime) and how much juice it'll demand to spin the wheels.

The numbers under no load gives you an idea of the effiency of the Motor, the lower the number the less power it demands and therefore longer runtimes. Take the Tomy 2.2 vs the 2.6, even though the 2.6 is a higher RPM motor it uses less power when running and will last considerably longer than the 2.2!

The stalled numbers (I believe, not positive on this yet) indicates how much the motor will demand for power to spin the wheels. The higher the number, the more "pull" it has...I'll have more concrete info when I do the 'hill climb' tests. I'm especially interested in that Bit Char-Gmotor 3.0, at no load it's pulling A LOT of juice!

My next batch of tests will be to see how steep an incline the motors can handle, this will compliment the power usage tests and give us a better picture of Torque.

[AUDI-TT]

would it be possible to do this somehow but with the same load the car puts on it? so we can get a better understanding bcuz the rpm with no load doesn tell us enough

[extremeR1der]

Cool. Let me be the first to say thanks for the effort!

[cowfish_29]

Thank you! good stuff you got there. Makes me think...i wonder if there is a good way to measure the torque? I'm thinking like one of them stationary bikes, turn up the levels of resistance till the motor can't turn anymore...:D

anyways, thats really cool!

EDIT: hehehehe i just re-read your post and saw the part about torque...man am i dumb or what? :D

[Namuna]

Audi-TT,
Yes, it would be great to do such tests...But that would probably require building a dynamometer (and all that would entail) to test these little 'toys', well I just don't know if I'm THAT crazy yet.

While the RPM with no load alone doesn't give you much...You CAN match it up with my other tests (like the battery tests and the Motor Power Usage tests) and all together some things about the motors start to show.

[AUDI-TT]

cool info man, thanx a lot

does the power usage when it is stalled have anythjing to do with how much the torque the motor would have? im just wondering

thanx again

[BillyP]

Thanks for the info! You should move your own thread to Bit Science!

[Namuna]

It is my belief that the stalled current indicates how much juice the motor demands before giving up...So in essence yes, I think that equates to torque.

I'll be more sure when I do the incline tests.

[actofgod]

Any chance of including bitmod1 3.0, 3.2, 3.5 motors?
How about Perfection 3.0, 3.8?
DKS rotors, etc.?
It'd be great to have a complete table of the most popular motors.

Any news about that micro-b dyno thing, perhaps for some real torque numbers?

Excellent work so far. Looking forward to incline tests.

[Namuna]

I've merged the Power Usage and RPM test threads. So if things seem a little out of place, that's way.

Figured this is the best way to keep everything together.

[Namuna]

actofgod,

I will try contacting the retailers for those motors and see if they want to send me any motors to test.

[ph2t]

DYNO project.

Used it on the weekend, check it here.

http://www.ausmicro.com/link.asp?TOPIC_ID=527

ph2t.

[TypeZer0]

maybe you could test a dual and tri cell setup to prove whether a motor's speed is doubled and tripled by double and tripling the voltage. if the law of diminishing returns apply here, then it'll quiet those people who say their tri cell 3.0 runs at 9.0 or something along those lines

[Lord_Nick_D]

can you try that with a perfection 3.8
and compaire

[TypeZer0]

he can only test what he has so if u want him to test the perfection 3.8, u betta donate one to him then :D

[Namuna]

Update:

I just received the 'Darkside rotor' 3.4 motor from DriftKingShop. I'll hopefully have some results on this motor soon.

I'll also be getting the 'Phast Motor' from RCMod soon as well.

The Multi-Cell tests is a definite must-do, good call TypeZer0.

[BillyP]

Maybe you can add an efficiency column to the chart with the RATIO of the MAX current to MIN current. This could be really useful for multi-cell bits, I believe, because more efficient motors perform better with multiple cells. In this case, the 2.6 rules!

If a motor is doing NO work, than 100% of the power is converted to heat. This can explain why motors get so warm under no load. I think the maximum heat produced is I^2*R,
where R is the armature resistance and I is the NO LOAD current. Since the current is directly proportional the the voltage, a more efficient motor can run at a higher voltage before overheating.

This is good because the frequency (rpm) is directly proportional to the voltage. Please don't bite my head off if that's not what the tests say... that's just what my physics text book says!

By the way, your idea that current = torque is verified in my physics book too. ;)

[BabyKiller]

and could you give us info on the r-spec v2 and mabey hardwired motors?

[BillyP]

Hard-wired motors should work exactly the same. Sometimes the contact between the motor and the motor clip isn't very good (high resistance), so hard-wiring is juts a way to ensure that you don't have this problem. This is one of those mods where I gotta say... Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

(And of course, if it is broke... ya know)

[BabyKiller]

umm thats kinda funny how the formula 34 out preforms r-spec and it has more torqe but the r-spec has a new version and its cheaper so i think ill buy another r-spec

[viperkilla]

Hey Namuna, did you test out the new NOS Express for ZIP ZAPS?

[Namuna]

For the folks that keep asking if I've tested a certain motor or request that I do...As I've said in the beginning, I've test ONLY the motors that I have and anything after that are Motors sent to me by a Retailer/Manufacturer for testing.

At this point I've got PLENTY enough motors and have NO incentive to spend my own money to buy anymore.

If there's a motor I haven't tested and you want to see results on (like the Perfection 3.8 or ZZ NOS Express) I'd suggest maybe contacting the manufacturer or reseller and pointing them my way to send 'test' motors for me to get results on.

[Namuna]

Update:

- Received the 'Darkside Rotor 3.4' from DriftKingShop.
- Should soon be receiving the 'Phast' motor from RCMod soon
- Ordered an 'Angle Finder' for precise measurment when I do the incline tests.

[BabyKiller]

hey you edited the formula 34 rpm >:(

[JackD]

I notice that the lower rated motors work better in my dual and triple cells. Is there any particular reason for this? Also, while we're on the subject, what's the best motor for dual cell rides ? I currently am using the zz red 2.1 in my mult-cell cars. BTW. I've said this before, but those tests are awsome.......JD

[kwikbb]

Originally posted by JackD
Also, while we're on the subject, what's the best motor for dual cell rides ? I currently am using the zz red 2.1 in my mult-cell cars. BTW. I've said this before, but those tests are awsome.......JD
I too am currently running a 2.1 in my daul ZZ, i tried a TRC 2.8... but that things got sooo much torque that it would just fishtail like mad! So I've found the 2.1 to be my best choice right now too.

And yeah Namuna's the man when it comes to all this techno gobbly-gook, he brings the info you didn't even know you wanted to know! :D

[Namuna]

Originally posted by BabyKiller
hey you edited the formula 34 rpm >:(

Nope, I haven't touched the numbers.

[Buzzbait]

I'm also using a 2.1 motor in my hybrid dual cell MS Pro/Zip Zap. I tried faster motors, but had problems. The boosted speed would be very fast with the faster motor, but the unboosted speed would be slower than the 2.1. It's as if the motors display different properties with different voltages run through them.

[BabyKiller]

the formula 34 rpm was higher than the r-spec before so if you didnt tiny did cause he didnt want that to get out

[kwikbb]

Results of the r-spec may have changed with the replacement of the original by V2.0... just a guess *shrug*

[BabyKiller]

the formula 34 had about 300 rpm over the r-spec beforce and in lowered 2000 rpm

[Namuna]

Originally posted by BabyKiller
the formula 34 rpm was higher than the r-spec before so if you didnt tiny did cause he didnt want that to get out

The Formula34 is a 34,000rpm motor...The R-Spec was never quoted an RPM, but I tested it to be 36,000+

There's NO MISTAKE, there's NO CHANGES.

Let's just get a couple of things straight about information I post.

1. I NEVER falsify, nor allow the falsification of any of my findings.

2. The results I find are the results I give, any deviation of that (like rounding off or allowance of errors) is and will ALWAYS be given and upfront. You're NOT going to find little details that blur the facts omitted.

3. Mistakes WILL happen, though I try my BEST to get all the facts right (like the whole STUPID name changes and confusion with the colors of the ZipZaps motors). If I make a mistake, I own up to it and fix it.

[BabyKiller]

im just saying when i first saw the chart i could have swore the formula 34 rpm was 300rpm higher than r-spec

[BabyKiller]

are we every going to see the results for phast motor or did u not get it yet????????????????

[Gamma Burst]

Hi Namuna, just wondering if you got my e-mail with the permanent magnet DC motor equations? I hope it is helpful in your motor testing if you did not already have/know this stuff. I think it is great what you are doing. If the armature resistance, torque constant and no-load rated speed can be found for each motor it will go a long way to determining which motor is truly the "best". :)

[Namuna]

Ahhh, leave it to BabyKiller to keep me on my toes.

Unfortunately I won't be able to put it to the test until early next week (just had my wedding last weekend and am going away this weekend for a pseudo-honeymoon).

Don't worry, I know we're all anxious (especially you BabyKiller
;) ) to see the results. I'll get on it ASAP when I get back.

Gamma Burst, I replied to your email. Check it out.

Edit: I actually haven't received the PHAST motor, yet anyway. What I do have to be tested are:

- 3.4 Darkside Rotor from DriftKingShop
- 4.0 from Gizmo Guru (in UK)
- A whole bunch of Motor from Extreme Micros

[Lord_Nick_D]

congradulations
on getting married

[flatlander_14]

yeah congratulations namuna! btw i am most interested in 2 and 3 cell zip tests. i want to find out exactly how much more power multiple cells give. this will help a guy i know who is making a zipzap speed calculator, hopefully battery voltage can become one of those factors:D i'd like to know how much of a difference there is between 3 normal batteries and 3 layman's cells...

[charliebrown]

Lord Nick and flatlander, ditto.....congrats on the wedding namuna

[BabyKiller]

thats a big decision lets hope she is the one congrates

[charliebrown]

Hey Namuna, when do you think you can test the ZZ 3.4 motor and the Phast motor? Also can you teach me how to build an easier tachometer? the link to the circuit the guy used is dead.....

[Namuna]

Here's the results for this round of tests, I'll dress it all up and add to the mainpage when I get to work tomorrow...But at least you've got the numbers.

Darkside 3.4:
No Load: 77mA
Stalled: 350mA
RPMs: 31,824 (this is actually the higher number, after testing with a FULLY charged, ~1.42v car)

Gizmo Guru 4.0:
No Load: 110mA
Stalled: 375mA
RPMs: 31,176 (same situation as the Darkside, this is the higher number after testing with a fully charged car)

Extreme Motors:
- EM-10 Tech Spec:
No Load: 14.2mA
Stalled: 86.5mA
RPMs: 10,944

- EM-16 Four Banger:
No Load: 31.6mA
Stalled: 192.8mA
RPMs: 17,496

- EM-26 Turbo Six:
No Load: 51.6mA
Stalled: 246.9mA
RPMs: 23,184

- EM-30 Rotary Spec:
No Load: 58.5
Stalled: 292.0
RPMs: 25,632

- EM-35 Big Block:
No Load: 57.6
Stalled: 321.1
RPMs: 25,560

- EM-38 Vanquish Rotor:
No Load: 82.9
Stalled: 357.2
RPMs: 27,360

Edit: Just went to the ExtremeMicros site to verify the naming convention of their motors...So I've updated the info.

[BabyKiller]

hahah damn they are all a rip off cept Extreme Motors:- EM-10 Tech Spec which is slow anyway hahahahah

dakrside 3.5 isnt it 3.4?

[Namuna]

hahah damn they are all a rip off cept Extreme Motors:- EM-10 Tech Spec which is slow anyway hahahahah

dakrside 3.5 isnt it 3.4?


Well, the Gizmo-Guru motor isn't actually being sold...They sent me the motor to test for them before offering it for sale on their site.

yes, the darkside is a 3.4. Typo, and it's now fixed. Thanks for pointing it out.

Update: The mainpage has been updated with the new info.

[Azimov]

Namuna, i noticed that there are no stats on the blue ZZ "control" motor listed. Do you have one of these to test? If not I can send you one. I have a handful of them. I need the open and stall current numbers.

[BabyKiller]

AHHHH WILL WE EVERY SEE A KING 4.2 AND PHAST MOTOR RPM'S?

[Namuna]

As soon as the guys at RCMod send the PHAST Motor over to me, then you'll see the resutls.

As far as the King 4.2, if YOU want to send me one to test then you'll get results...As I've previously said, on a couple of occasions, I don't buy any more motors (I've got PLENTY enough).

[BabyKiller]

do these sites let you keep the motors ? and i would glady send you my king 4.2's for testing when they get here as long as i get them back

[charliebrown]

Baby Killer,

STOP PESTERING NAMUNA!!!!! Give him a little bit more time! Don't keep pushing him or he may not post the RPM's! Trust me....I always push ol' pops around when I want something....:D

[MicroSpeed]

Does Gizmmo Guru have a website yet? and if it does could someone give me a link:confused:

Thanx
David

[Namuna]

www.gizmo-guru.com

* They're based in the UK.

[MicroSpeed]

Thanx

[MadScott]

Namuna, just curious about the EM motors. Based on those readings, it doesn't appear that many of their upper end motors come close to delivering their promise RPM. Unless I'm reading this wrong, this would seem to indicate to me that one should think twice about those motors. Does this sound correct?

[BabyKiller]

yes basicly anything above EM-16 IS A COMPLETE RIP OFF!!!!!!

[Namuna]

Namuna, just curious about the EM motors. Based on those readings, it doesn't appear that many of their upper end motors come close to delivering their promise RPM. Unless I'm reading this wrong, this would seem to indicate to me that one should think twice about those motors. Does this sound correct?


I share your concern, though they don't specifically claim that their motors put out certain RPMs...It IS misleading to name the motors inline with how Tomy names theirs (that are specifically named according to rated RPMs).

...Or maybe I got a couple of duds.

[BabyKiller]

ehh still waiting on phast motor(desides when he gets his 4.2's hes gonna send 1 to namuna and when it gets back send the other 4.2)

[nouseforname101]

Originally posted by Namuna
I share your concern, though they don't specifically claim that their motors put out certain RPMs...It IS misleading to name the motors inline with how Tomy names theirs (that are specifically named according to rated RPMs).

...Or maybe I got a couple of duds.

Or maybe its like AMD Processors

They say call the processor a Athlon 2000 or 2100 (like the one I'm using right now ;)

But it really runs at 1500 mhz but it runs as good as or better than an Intel 2000 or 2100

Maybe its the same with Extreme. The Vanquish motor may run like a 3.8 because of magnets inside it or possibly torque but runs at a slower RPM

[charliebrown]

Um, Namuna, I'm estimating that the Phast motor is around 40,000-44,000 RPMs. Because somebody ordered one and said it is faster than their 4.0..... I use it and it is a little slower than my NX motor.....

Or maybe they sent me a defective motor lol.

[X_I_Ted]

I have a Perfection 3.8 and one of the Phast Motors as well as all of the motors ExtremeMicro sells (Hey, they're pretty cheap. It's only a buck shipping and the neat little motor tubes and the big transport tube are pretty handy. Besides, getting a pair of 150mAH NiCds give you some half decent backup spares if you don't already have a mess of NiMHs lying around). I know the name is misleading, but really now. Marketing is always like that. Their customer service is still quite good (and prompt at that). It's a cheap way to start to build your stock of motors too.

But as for motor testing, I don't have Namuna's setup, so I have to do things the old fashioned, prone to error way. I'll toss them all into totally stock bits and race them simultaneously. This is by no means as accurate as Namuna's method, but it should give us a rough estimate for how the Phast Motor compares to the Perfection and the EM-38 Vanquish.

One question I have is did you break these motors in before testing them? Does it really make that much of a difference when we do? These are small motors, but I guess uneven wear is uneven wear.

[Jtskty]

Originally posted by SkyLiNEz 4-eva!
WILL SOMEONE PLEASE TEST THE FREAKING KING 4.2 AND 4.2 KING PRO???!!!! IM GETTING REALLY ****ING PISSED OFF OVER HERE!!!

He did all those motor tests and was nice enough to share them with all of us and you tell him to spend $8 just to please you, who he has never seen.

[SkyLiNEz 4-eva!]

has he seen you?

[Jtskty]

Originally posted by SkyLiNEz 4-eva!
has he seen you?

No, but I am not cursing at him for not helping me enough. This thread has helped me and others on this forum a lot on what motor to buy. Do you think that their are other motors I wish where tested? If you said yes you are right, but I read this whole thread and in the very begining namuna stated he felt he had enough motors and was not going to buy anymore. He said he would test them if you sent them to him. I knew i wasn't going to buy it and sendit to him, so I just read and learned what I could(which is alot) from this thread.

[Jtskty]

Originally posted by SkyLiNEz 4-eva!
why dont you also yell at babykiller? he proved more aggravation than me on multiple occasions.

Baby killer never cursed at him and babykiller volunteered to send HIS 4.2 king to namuna for tested.

[charliebrown]

Skylinez 4-eva did something wrong, but try to understand WHY he did it....Namuna is taking a long time, maybe too long. Namuna, if you're reading this, pleez hurry, it's been over a month now! I'm not pushing you or anything, I'm just saying, are we ever going to see those rpm ratings? Please, it'd be GREATLY appreciated.

[Jtskty]

Originally posted by charliebrown
Namuna is taking a long time, maybe too long.

Correct me if i'm wrong but namuna never said he would post the rating's on the 4.2's.

[froogazzi]

i have a Phast Motor, im very happy with this motor. it has unbelievable high end torque, and its in a MSpro w/ turbo blaster. i can keep up wit a ZZ nos motor, wit out hittin the turbo blaster button on my remote. but when i do hit it. it just takes off like u kicked a hot wheels car across the floor. [not really but its really quick]. i dont have any other motors to test it too. i was wonderin if anyone has this motor and was able to test it to other motors? plz let me kno. cuz i would like to get other fast motors. anyone who has compared plz i would like to kno. thank u.

[Jtskty]

not sure if this has been said already but the tomy 2.6 and the bit char-g motor 2.6 have the excact same stats. Whats that about?

[viperdout]

Wow, I'm lucky I didn't get an EM. I only tried one other motor brand besides DKS, BitMod1, and those motors blew. I have an original 3.4 and a Darkside, and the new one has a lot more torque. I haven't had a Darkside long, but the first one's still running after 4 years. :D Also, their service is great. I wish I had enough money to buy more stuff, but right now, I'm trying to get my neighbor to sell me his '93 Cobra. He's getting an addition on his house, so maybe now he wants to sell! I hope so!

[Jtskty]

Hey tiny, could you send namuna the lower rpm tiny rc motors to test. I am trying to decide what motor to get from the 2.2 to about the 2.8 range. I am thinking the tomy 2.6 but I hear tinyrc motors have a lot of torque so i'm not sure. I want to make an order but I don't know what to get.

[viperdout]

Just for grins, I'd like to see what a 4.2 puts out.

[MicroSpeed]

just wondering, did you ever get that Phast Motor?

[viperdout]

Yes I did, and it's friggn great! W/O my body, I pulled such a high wheelie that the car flippied over backwards. I was running 9.8:1 gears (green ZZ). I also have a set of pro street slicks on it, though I think stock tires grip better.

Pic:
http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/viperdout/DSC00090.jpg

BTW, this is the one I sent to Micro_Amps.

[MicroSpeed]

cool!

[viperdout]

Thanks! And thanks for the work done. It runs so well!

[MattPaintballer]

Wow!!! Thanks a lot Namuna!!! I only wish I could give you some 4.2's... I don't know where to get them...

[Jespanch]

Just wanted to say that this is some great stuff! :)

[GerG]

Edit:oops sumhow I posted in the wrong forum!

[fatman]

about 3.8 zz purple mt red yello orange and green